[Jason7]

Originally Posted by toesuf94

Subaru makes some neat cars...but since they are owned 20% by Toyota, I would not touch them with YOUR 10-foot pole.

Y? Cause it was proven that toyotas are fine it was the stupid ass owners?

Just sayin

Jason

[christianmotox]

Originally Posted by Jason7

Y? Cause it was proven that toyotas are fine it was the stupid ass owners?

Just sayin

Jason

LOL well said.

[toesuf94]

No. Because Toyota frequently blames suppliers for issues on items that were made and accepted to their specifications and takes no blame for their own mistakes...that's why. IE the US frame supplier for Tacoma's lead to the rusting issues that caused Toyota to have to buy back thousands of trucks and crush them - quietly. Or that it was a gas pedal maker's issue, not theirs...then the floor mats...never their design work. THAT is why I do not deal with Toyota. But you are correct about the drivers who buy thier cars/trucks.

Originally Posted by Jason7
Y? Cause it was proven that toyotas are fine it was the stupid ass owners?

[JusticePete]

No because of our tax and trade polices. Toyota and all the rest of the transplant manufacturing companies have gutted the middle class in the USA. When the state and local governments gave them carte blanche to locate here in non-union plants they became the instrument for dismantling of our economy. While people complain about over paid UAW and other union workers, they seem to forget it was those same workers that drove growth in our economy. The newest Asian trans plate auto plant pays the line workers the same as a a fast food joint pays people to flip burgers. The problem with that is you can't afford to raise a family on those wages let alone buy a new car or refrigerator.

When others complained about the government bailout of GM and Chrysler I take the stance it was long over due because in many ways the government brought them down. If the USA enforced any semblance of free trade and open markets with our trading partners there would still be a thriving manufacturing sector in the USA. All we have to do is look at Chine. While GM can't outright own a company in China, they can compete in the Chinese market with American products like Buick. China is in no way an open market, but isn't interesting that Toyota is struggling in China? Export products from American do not sell because of the manipulative trade policies of our partners.

It has taken me some time to come to this perspective. It has nothing to do with the quality of the products from Toyota or any other transplant mfg. It has everything to do with bringing manufacturing back to the USA and a good standard of living for the middle class. We don't need to import third world wages into the USA with our tax and trade polices. We need to create an environment here in the USA that is conducive to manufacturing and open markets with our trading partners so we can sell our products overseas.

If we need to separate this from all things automotive we can look to Airbus. Airbus is a government funded and government supported company that has taken half of Boeing's market-share. Airbus would not exist if it were not government funded. American Airlines just split an order between Airbus and Boeing. That isn't free market competition. That is a government company taking jobs out of the USA.

I own a company. We make parts here in the USA and in Australia. I do alright and will adjust to whatever the government polices are to make a profit. My concern if for the average American that gets the short end of the stick.

End of rant that will probably be deleted for being political.

[brandotron]

WRX is great car

[toesuf94]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

No because of our tax and trade polices. Toyota and all the rest of the transplant manufacturing companies have gutted the middle class in the USA. When the state and local governments gave them carte blanche to locate here in non-union plants they became the instrument for dismantling of our economy. While people complain about over paid UAW and other union workers, they seem to forget it was those same workers that drove growth in our economy. The newest Asian trans plate auto plant pays the line workers the same as a a fast food joint pays people to flip burgers. The problem with that is you can't afford to raise a family on those wages let alone buy a new car or refrigerator.

When others complained about the government bailout of GM and Chrysler I take the stance it was long over due because in many ways the government brought them down. If the USA enforced any semblance of free trade and open markets with our trading partners there would still be a thriving manufacturing sector in the USA. All we have to do is look at Chine. While GM can't outright own a company in China, they can compete in the Chinese market with American products like Buick. China is in no way an open market, but isn't interesting that Toyota is struggling in China? Export products from American do not sell because of the manipulative trade policies of our partners.

It has taken me some time to come to this perspective. It has nothing to do with the quality of the products from Toyota or any other transplant mfg. It has everything to do with bringing manufacturing back to the USA and a good standard of living for the middle class. We don't need to import third world wages into the USA with our tax and trade polices. We need to create an environment here in the USA that is conducive to manufacturing and open markets with our trading partners so we can sell our products overseas.

If we need to separate this from all things automotive we can look to Airbus. Airbus is a government funded and government supported company that has taken half of Boeing's market-share. Airbus would not exist if it were not government funded. American Airlines just split an order between Airbus and Boeing. That isn't free market competition. That is a government company taking jobs out of the USA.

I own a company. We make parts here in the USA and in Australia. I do alright and will adjust to whatever the government polices are to make a profit. My concern if for the average American that gets the short end of the stick.

End of rant that will probably be deleted for being political.

1000000 X I agree!!!

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

No because of our tax and trade polices. Toyota and all the rest of the transplant manufacturing companies have gutted the middle class in the USA. When the state and local governments gave them carte blanche to locate here in non-union plants they became the instrument for dismantling of our economy. While people complain about over paid UAW and other union workers, they seem to forget it was those same workers that drove growth in our economy. The newest Asian trans plate auto plant pays the line workers the same as a a fast food joint pays people to flip burgers. The problem with that is you can't afford to raise a family on those wages let alone buy a new car or refrigerator.

When others complained about the government bailout of GM and Chrysler I take the stance it was long over due because in many ways the government brought them down. If the USA enforced any semblance of free trade and open markets with our trading partners there would still be a thriving manufacturing sector in the USA. All we have to do is look at Chine. While GM can't outright own a company in China, they can compete in the Chinese market with American products like Buick. China is in no way an open market, but isn't interesting that Toyota is struggling in China? Export products from American do not sell because of the manipulative trade policies of our partners.

It has taken me some time to come to this perspective. It has nothing to do with the quality of the products from Toyota or any other transplant mfg. It has everything to do with bringing manufacturing back to the USA and a good standard of living for the middle class. We don't need to import third world wages into the USA with our tax and trade polices. We need to create an environment here in the USA that is conducive to manufacturing and open markets with our trading partners so we can sell our products overseas.

If we need to separate this from all things automotive we can look to Airbus. Airbus is a government funded and government supported company that has taken half of Boeing's market-share. Airbus would not exist if it were not government funded. American Airlines just split an order between Airbus and Boeing. That isn't free market competition. That is a government company taking jobs out of the USA.

I own a company. We make parts here in the USA and in Australia. I do alright and will adjust to whatever the government polices are to make a profit. My concern if for the average American that gets the short end of the stick.

End of rant that will probably be deleted for being political.

[toesuf94]

Let's not forget that a lot of the Japanese transplant companies have been given large tax incentives to come here only to begin moving the production back over to Japan once the sweet deals started to evaporate claiming poor quality on US built units as the reason they were willing to move back to Japan and pay to ship finished cars/trucks.

[8cd03gro]

Here we go, another economics debate filled with protectionism and backyard economics. It never fails.

[JusticePete]

Cut and run. They bailed the moment the economy got rough. Here is an interesting bit of information. The Harbour Report rates auto mfg facilities on an intense matrix. There has never been an auto mfg plant to rank in the top that isn't a UAW factory.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Here we go, another economics debate filled with protectionism and backyard economics. It never fails.

I don't see it that way, but respect your opinion and right to disagree.

[toesuf94]

And I am not dissing your car one bit...just the manuafacturer that built it. I respect the Subaru WRX/STi cars - I just wish GM would make something like it - meaning: Lightweight, nimble, awd. and FAST.

[8cd03gro]

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/

Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker

Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
$73.73

Toyota:
$48



Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker

Source: Center for Automotive Research

GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.

Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.

When you have "unskilled" uneducated laborers making $73 an hour (with benefits included), you will not become profitable, period. If you don't have a degree and your job consists of assembly line button pushing, maybe you shouldn't be making the same wage as someone with a degree and specialized knowledge. There are many reasons GM was driven into bankruptcy, but greedy executives and UAW workers were absolutely the forefront of the problem. The lowest paid UAW members have wages many times a fast food laborer and they receive health benefits, as do the import auto makers workers, don't give me that.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by toesuf94

And I am not dissing your car one bit...just the manuafacturer that built it. I respect the Subaru WRX/STi cars - I just wish GM would make something like it - meaning: Lightweight, nimble, awd. and FAST.

I understand that and appreciate it, and I can even understand buying only American for various reasons, but SOME of the reasoning behind it is very illogical and misguided. BTW, when my car was built and purchased, GM owned majority stake in Fuji Heavy Industries of which Subaru is a subsidiary. GM sold their shares to Toyota in late 2005.