04-01-2021, 02:05 PM | #29 | |
Drives: A Vette Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 193
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Quote:
Very enjoyable read thanks for sharing. That's awesome you had the C6 ZR1 that car is really fast. I have a C6 LS3 and I'm curious to know if the Z28 would be just as fast as it speedwise in a straight line race stock for stock. I know the Z28 has the same LS7 motor as the C6 Z06 but it obviously wouldnt be as fast considering the fact that it's a few hundred pounds heavier. So I'm just curious would a 5th gen Z28 pretty much be comparable to a C6 LS3 stock for stock? Are they pretty much just as fast as eachother? |
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04-02-2021, 08:03 PM | #30 |
Drives: Garnet Red / ZL1 1LE Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 502
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As someone who owned a line of M cars (E46, E90) etc. followed by a C7 Z06.. the ZLE was essentially a pursuit of everything that I loved about the golden age of M cars coupled with the power of the C7 Z06.
2 years into owning the ZLE, I have never been more impressed and thrilled with a car as much. Every driver input is perfectly calibrated with a chassis that loves to be pushed and inspires confidence. The ZLE rights all of the wrongs of the C7 Z06 and then some.
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#SAVETHEMANUALS
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04-02-2021, 08:31 PM | #31 |
Drives: 2020 Camaro ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: IN
Posts: 69
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Great thread, thanks to all for the contributions! My 20 ZLE has become track-only, which sadly means 8-10 events a year if I'm lucky living in the Midwest. Each event I go to, I always find myself drooling over the GT4's, and the thought of the 718 GT4 with PDK for 2021 has had me thinking awfully hard about adding one to the stable. My ZLE is a 6MT and I wouldn't trade that trans choice for the world, but every Porsche I've driven with PDK has felt phenomenal and it would be hard to pass up. I find myself wondering if I did pick up a GT4 and took it out to the occasional PCA event or something, would I want to replace the ZLE with it as full-time track duty? I suppose that would be a good problem to have at that point to have to make that decision. Anyway, enough of my rambling, carry on!
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04-02-2021, 08:58 PM | #32 |
Drives: Garnet Red / ZL1 1LE Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 502
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I think people need to be fully honest about the pros/cons of each car.
The ZLE is without a doubt an amazing car however if it does have an achilles heel - it's weight. I understand the economics of it. The ZLE is one of those rare cars that is calibrated to feel light and nimble. Tremendous feat by the engineers. As for me....I will stick with the ZLE for a variety of reasons in this season of my life. P.s. Tips for the OP -
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#SAVETHEMANUALS
Last edited by Checkmate1; 04-02-2021 at 09:44 PM. |
04-03-2021, 02:42 AM | #33 |
Drives: 2019 Chevy Camaro ZL1 1LE Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: MS
Posts: 150
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@serper3 I have a couple friends that picked up 911's due to the back seats. They regretted it after putting in the baby seats. Very hard to maneuver.
I'm very happy with my ZL1 1LE on the track but it's impossible to drive on the roads where I live. If I had to do it over again, I would have picked up the non-1LE or moved somewhere that actually maintains the infrastructure or lost 50 lbs first It's an amazing car for the price. |
04-03-2021, 09:04 AM | #34 |
Drives: 2017 Hyper Blue A10 ZL1 Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: New England
Posts: 716
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OP, I have enjoyed this discussion. I am doing autox with a ZL1. It is great fun, but I really feel the weight. Also, it is too much power for AutoX, at least on short courses. Breath just a little too much on the throttle, and I have blown the run. Fast when I get it right. The ZL1 is so much fun, but just not the right car for the competition I am doing. I am winning local CamC, but not competitive in regional events.
I have had 4 Porsches and checked out the GT4. It did just not seem visceral enough if that makes any sense. Also it is classed with GT3's. I would love to have both, but that is a lot of money to have tied up in impractical cars. I can't seem to want to give up the ZL1. Maybe I keep it and get a MX-5 Club, or trade for a GT3, if I can get the allocation. The miata's aren't the most desirable cars, but they do great in AutoX. Those GT3's are visceral, especially at near 9000 RPM, but they have also really jumped up in price. I had the ZL1 on a track. Then, it was the right car, and the ZLE would have been better. Its just that I do more AutoX than track. However, forget the huge price of the GT3. With just the sales tax on the GT3, excise tax on it, and the second set of wheels and tires alone on the GT3, I could buy the Club. The GT3 is a great car from past experience. Lot of cost. Lot of value. Holds it value. It was nice to hear input from someone who has had both the ZLE platform and the GT4. Choices.
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Sold 2010 997 GT3, 2016 WRX, 2006 997 C2S, 2003 996 C4S, 2001 Boxster S, 1997 E420 AMG etc.. |
04-03-2021, 10:10 AM | #35 |
Drives: 2019 ZL1 Riverside Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,139
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Would love to see track comparison of properly set up ZLE vs used GT3 (i.e. similar price ranges, less than 100k)
ZLE just needs that Magnuson 2650 to stave off the heat soak and 700 rwhp - it would be hard to beat, even with some extra weight |
04-03-2021, 10:27 AM | #36 |
Drives: Garnet Red / ZL1 1LE Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 502
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We all need to be cognizant of the value equation here.
GT4 Buy In - New w/options is roughly between $110k - $120k + Tax/Title. ADM may be charged by dealer. GT3 Buy In - New w/options is roughly between $169k - $190k + Tax/Title (2022 model). ADM may be charged by dealer. ZLE Buy In - New w/options is roughly $74k - $75k + Tax/Title. Generally no ADM's. Keep in mind that the ZLE is mostly purchased at a heavy discount. There is generally 0 possibility for discounts on a GT product unless you've been a long time customer. Keep in mind that a PDK 991.2 GT3 lapped the ring at 7:12. Meanwhile a Manual ZLE w/backseats lapped the Nurburgring at 7:16 (with an unofficial 7:13 that also happened). These are all track day cars so lap times matter. You could buy 2 ZLE's for the price of a GT3 and still have money left over for consumables. In addition - you don't have to be precious with it. The best car is one where you can hoon it and not worry about it breaking your wallet.
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#SAVETHEMANUALS
Last edited by Checkmate1; 04-03-2021 at 05:46 PM. |
04-03-2021, 10:31 AM | #37 |
Drives: '21 Camaro ZLE Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Dubai
Posts: 24
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Great thread and discussion guys. I'm torn between a GT4 and ZLE 6 speed at the moment. In Dubai I can get a 2016 Gt4 for around $75k and as there are no ZLE's locally I would have to import one from the states, fully landed cost approaching $85k. My current track car is a C6 Z06 with lots of track mods, its a beast but being 14 years old, its now just too unreliable to beat around the track, I want something turnkey and bullet proof. I have a 997 RS in my stable and also track my partners 991 RS often. I think I would grow tired of the GT4 quickly even though the chassis is sublime. Wish I could drive a ZLE before pulling the trigger but thats not a viable option obviously. Things that concern me about the ZLE is heat management (given that even in winter ambient temps are usually around 30 degrees celcius here) and the lack of warranty. Decisions decisions, first world problems
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04-03-2021, 11:49 AM | #38 | |
Drives: 2020 Camaro ZL1 1 LE Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: MD
Posts: 94
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Quote:
just as reference take a look at this historical laptime comparison (C&D Lightning laps). yes, I know it's done over years of timeframe, and the track conditions are never the same, and the drivers are rotated in and out, but it gives an idea of the performance of the various cars: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/ the ZLE is way the hell up in the rankings there (20th of all time). there are only 4 Porsches that are in front of it and none of them are even remotely near the $100k price point. I think you'd need to drop way down on the list to buy a Porsche for $100k, and then you'd be 5+ secs slower. that's a lifetime slower per lap. yes yes definitely you can say oh then I'll modify the Porsche and it'll be faster; yes I'm sure that's pretty true, but of course there are cons. usually doing that to a nice car like the Porsche devalues it (after you've just spent a ton of money on mods haha; been there done that!). and it typically really hurts the 'normal driving' experience when not on track. (noise vibration harshness. the stripped down racecar factor). and reliability usually suffers some too. so, I'd say that if you really wanted to get a $100k Porsche, and have it run with a stock ZLE, it would be quite a trick. but probably could be done. if I were to be challenged with that - I'd look for something like a 996 TT; with some miles and some cosmetic blemishes, or maybe a 997 TT with a ton of miles and/or an R title). maybe buy it for $40k hopefully maybe a touch less. do a complete maintenance on the entire car and exhaust and a serious performance tune up (600ish hp) on it (and hope its sound to start with). do a heavy duty clutch/PP. completely do the suspension (coilovers race shocks swaybars all new bushings etc etc). upgrade the brakes (fronts especially). and take out as much weight as possibly could (seats, AC, sound insulation stereo). put on lightweight wheels and sticky tires. I think that would run with a ZLE. and even at that I'm not positive it would be under $100k if done by a shop. I think it most like positively would be for sure if you did the work yourself. or you could have the ZLE with a full warranty that can go out and get 'er done with no changes from stock. that's kinda why this is almost a miracle car that I still can't believe that GM produced/produces!!! EDIT: if you wanted to go a LOT faster with the ZLE, it could be done with very little money. dump weight. take out the heavy seats and put in racing seats. remove the plethora of airbags. take out the AC. remove the infotainment and killer stereo. remove carpets rear seats trunk mats headliner sound insulation. I bet you could dump hundreds of pounds doing that. and I think for very little additional money you could throw a few basic performance parts at the engine and get it professionally tuned and then you'd go lots faster. PS i'd miss those nice comforts for street driving and wouldn't do that to my car, but it COULD be done easily Last edited by d15b7; 04-03-2021 at 12:03 PM. |
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04-03-2021, 12:52 PM | #39 |
Drives: '21 Camaro ZLE Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Dubai
Posts: 24
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^ A lot of the delta in laptimes between generations of cars can be explained by the progress made on the tyre front. Cup 2R's, Trofeo R's etc, are super sticky and designed to extract a few mega laps before their performance peters out. It would be interesting for example to stick some new tyres on a C6 Z06 and see how close it gets to a ZLE laptime.
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04-03-2021, 01:56 PM | #40 |
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE White Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 215
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So it finally dawned on me how to describe the difference between the ZLE and the GT4. I said earlier I was gonna post a more detailed comparison. Apologies that I didn't do that. The GT4 is a refined sports car. Quick, fantastic handling, just does everything right. The GT4 is the dude that works in finance and wears a suit and tie to dinner. The ZLE is his crazy talented buffed cousin with wild hair who works out at the gym then does ski jumping off cliffs for entertainment. No doubt the ZLE is a faster car, lap times everywhere have proven that. To me it feels faster everywhere, with a lot of it having to do with all that extra power. It's a Hoonigan car, bonkers fun, rougher around the edges, not as refined but for me a much more entertaining car to drive. It's just smile inducing ripping through the gears on this thing, and I'm not really getting on it yet. I just want to go out and drive it, which is probably the biggest compliment I can pay it. Lots of great discussion on value vs performance, which is a factor for most people. In that category there is no comparison between GT4 and ZLE, the ZLE wins without a doubt, end of story. If we start talking about which is a "better" car.......now we go down the rabbit hole of defining better. Means different things to different people. You cannot go wrong with either car, you really can't. If you get a GT4 you are getting a fantastic car. If you get a ZLE you are also getting a fantastic car. It's win/win all around.
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04-03-2021, 02:01 PM | #41 |
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE White Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 215
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One other factor I was talking to some folks about today at Cars and Coffee is the cost of mods. Again, no comparison here. You can spend relatively little money and add serious horsepower to the ZLEs already substantial amount. It costs a LOT of $ to get significant hp gains in a Porsche.
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04-03-2021, 02:02 PM | #42 |
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE White Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 215
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Folks can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are heat soak issues with the ZLE. All the issues the Z06 had were fixed with significantly more coolers on the ZLE. One of the posters is a pro racer and he mentioned tracking the ZLE and not having it get warm at all.
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