[TXCSSU]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

It's just super irritating to me. The only reason I'm considering an EV is for the tax break because I need a write off, otherwise its not something I'm remotely interested in.

The cheapest you can get is the Nissan Leaf, but I would suggest you get the cheapest model with the 62kwh battery. I've heard good things about the Bolt (battery issues not withstanding). If you were willing to go all in, the BMW I4 M50 is something to consider, it gives you near M3 performance for the MSRP of about $50k. Possibly less if it qualifies for tax incentives. I say get a cheap one and keep the daily miles off the Camaro. I love saving my "me time" for the Camaro. The EV is best for driving to work or the grocery store where I don't have to worry about some derp opening their door into my Camaro.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by TXCSSU

A lot of people like the torque but don't know it, "Horsepower sells cars, but Torque wins races". I still don't think everyone is going to magically get an EV in their driveway at the same time. It's going to be gradual. People will still need to rely on their good ole ICE vehicles. The move is going to be gradual, and the growing pains will hopefully be mitigated by the slow roll out. Hell, how many people are out on the road right now in 10+ year old vehicles? I still don't buy the extremist bullshit view that they're going to just start rounding people up that try to buy gas at a black-market gas station, just like I didn't buy the bullshit about a mob going house to house to collect everyone's guns, or the bullshit about birds being government surveillance devices. At some point we need to stop thinking that we're a part of a Tom Clancy novel. Now if you'll excuse me, my 2nd Moderna Covid shot needs to download its latest update...

i agree,theres no way to magically switch everyone over to EVs all at once,and that is a saving grace.not everyone can afford to throw away a 10 year old vehicle with less than 150k miles on it.i still consider my 2015 RS with 75,000 miles on it as a "new car" and hope to get at least 200,000 miles on it.since im retired and not driving to work every day it might be my last car.but theres a damn bird that keeps flying into my window here...i think bidens minions are watching me...

[TXCSSU]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

i agree,theres no way to magically switch everyone over to EVs all at once,and that is a saving grace.not everyone can afford to throw away a 10 year old vehicle with less than 150k miles on it.i still consider my 2015 RS with 75,000 miles on it as a "new car" and hope to get at least 200,000 miles on it.since im retired and not driving to work every day it might be my last car.but theres a damn bird that keeps flying into my window here...i think bidens minions are watching me...

And this is the part that the conspiracy theory nuts don't understand. The government isn't going to give everyone $40,000 to ditch their old cars. I mean they have been giving money away to get people to spend during COVID, and the $7500 is a good incentive to get people to deal with the growing pains of EV cars, but I highly doubt that one day they're just going to say that your dinosaur carcass burning car is now illegal and you will be executed if caught driving one. Hell, they haven't started putting cigarette smokers in jail, as much as I'd wish they did. I imagine that if they haven't banned cigarettes yet, especially in areas where wild fires are out of hand, how are they suddenly going to be able to ban ICE automobiles?

[classicrockr]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

It's just super irritating to me. The only reason I'm considering an EV is for the tax break because I need a write off, otherwise its not something I'm remotely interested in.

some states are now instituting an EV tax because they can't get gas tax on EV's

[redcoats1976]

i cant foresee a ban but im thinking it could become financially uncomfortable.kind of funny though,now that gas is up about half as high as biden wanted it hes worried about people voting republican because they are dissatisfied with his policies.kind of amusing that rumors of "gas stimulus checks" are floating around now.i guess the government can always print more money...

[DWR]

Another thought… EVs will (in my mind) destroy the used car market. At least for those people that can only afford 5k or even 10k cars because by that timeframe the battery will most likely be all but useless and the cost to replace them…

[redcoats1976]

true,after the battery is gone they will go right to the junkyard.

[B8TTYVILLEKID]

So I am an old guy. I love my Camaro because I grew up with Dinosaur drinking, loud, smelly cars. Mine satisfies that primal urge along with all the modern electronics and modern day reliability anyone could ask for. Its why we love these cars. All of us, both young and old, love it and are passionate about that experience. All you young guys........sooner or later you will be driving an electric car whether you like it or not . Just fact. You wont get a choice in 20 years unless you decide to drive an antique for which you can no longer get parts for. So if you have to be electric, why not a Camaro ? You can hate that opinion if you choose but it is true. The up side is they probably will figure out how to make those 6000 pound beasts take a corner by then. If you choose to drive one now, they seem to be pretty damn fast in a straight line. Hard to find a Camaro in any trim that can beat an S85 in Ludicrus mode.

[TXCSSU]

Originally Posted by B8TTYVILLEKID

So I am an old guy. I love my Camaro because I grew up with Dinosaur drinking, loud, smelly cars. Mine satisfies that primal urge along with all the modern electronics and modern day reliability anyone could ask for. Its why we love these cars. All of us, both young and old, love it and are passionate about that experience. All you young guys........sooner or later you will be driving an electric car whether you like it or not . Just fact. You wont get a choice in 20 years unless you decide to drive an antique for which you can no longer get parts for. So if you have to be electric, why not a Camaro ? You can hate that opinion if you choose but it is true. The up side is they probably will figure out how to make those 6000 pound beasts take a corner by then. If you choose to drive one now, they seem to be pretty damn fast in a straight line. Hard to find a Camaro in any trim that can beat an S85 in Ludicrus mode.

I don't buy the parts thing being an issue. When I worked for General Motors Parts Distribution about 15-ish years ago, I remember pulling a part for one of these things.



Now granted, it was just an emblem but GM has access to so many vendors. I remember helping my father restore a 1967 Cadillac DeVille and him needing a driveshaft. It took him a few weeks (pre-google days) but he finally found one. There will always be some specialty shops that will be around to help create replacement parts. Look at how Cuba has done so much to keep their vintage cars running.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

true,after the battery is gone they will go right to the junkyard.

Very much not true. First, batteries are warranted for at least 8 years / 100,000 miles. That is a NHTSA requirement. All manufacturers have to meet it, some exceed it by offering 10 year warranties with replacement triggered by battery performing below 70% of original range.

Second, most if not all manufacturers have established processes for replacing battery modules or cells, not just the entire battery in the event the battery needs service. GM in particular has detailed how the Ultium batteries, first introduced in the Hummer EV and planned for all EVs to follow, can be replaced plug ‘n play with the battery pack capable of automatically integrating the replacement module, even if it is a later generation design spec.

Third, every skateboard architecture I’ve seen allows for removal and replacement of the battery pack should the entire pack ever need replacement. Since there are no exhaust systems or prop shafts, the under vehicle access to the battery pack is clean and direct. Battery swaps wil be the equivalent of today’s engine swaps. In some cases easier.

Pictures below are some of the shots of the Kia EV6 skateboard that I took at the New York Auto Show a few weeks ago.

As for the batteries themselves, they will not be going to landfills. There are companies set up (and more on the way) for the singular purpose of remanufacturing EV batteries. I’ll be meeting with one of them sometime within the next couple weeks for a project I’m working on.

[wavsine]

Originally Posted by DWR

Another thought… EVs will (in my mind) destroy the used car market. At least for those people that can only afford 5k or even 10k cars because by that timeframe the battery will most likely be all but useless and the cost to replace them…

It will also forever change car dealerships that have traditionally depended on their service department for profits. Fewer moving parts on EVs mean fewer repairs.

I have been working with lithium technology for over a decade and anybody who thinks this EV movement is an environmental salvation from dino oil needs an education. But as long as lithium is mined on the other side of the world, nobody cares, right?

https://ecojungle.net/post/lithium-e...mental-impact/

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by DWR

Another thought… EVs will (in my mind) destroy the used car market. At least for those people that can only afford 5k or even 10k cars because by that timeframe the battery will most likely be all but useless and the cost to replace them…

If that were the case than used Prius’ and other hybrids would be worthless currently (they are not by the way). The batteries don’t just die immediately after warranty just like your gas engine doesn’t. There will be many local shops in the future that recondition batteries at a reasonable cost as this service will become more popular in the future. Currently the cost to recondition a hybrid battery is roughly the same cost to replace a clutch in a 6th gen camaro SS with oem parts.

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by TXCSSU

I don't buy the parts thing being an issue. When I worked for General Motors Parts Distribution about 15-ish years ago, I remember pulling a part for one of these things.



Now granted, it was just an emblem but GM has access to so many vendors. I remember helping my father restore a 1967 Cadillac DeVille and him needing a driveshaft. It took him a few weeks (pre-google days) but he finally found one. There will always be some specialty shops that will be around to help create replacement parts. Look at how Cuba has done so much to keep their vintage cars running.

In all fairness, the Cuban government likely doesn't have a massive contingent of Gretas looking to push aggressive/radical climate change legislation. Get enough of them at the helm and it could get interesting.

What I AM curious to see is how the aftermarket responds. Conversion kits? Motor swap like we used to do in slot cars and then send that shit clear off the track?

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Very much not true. First, batteries are warranted for at least 8 years / 100,000 miles. That is a NHTSA requirement. All manufacturers have to meet it, some exceed it by offering 10 year warranties with replacement triggered by battery performing below 70% of original range.

Second, most if not all manufacturers have established processes for replacing battery modules or cells, not just the entire battery in the event the battery needs service. GM in particular has detailed how the Ultium batteries, first introduced in the Hummer EV and planned for all EVs to follow, can be replaced plug ‘n play with the battery pack capable of automatically integrating the replacement module, even if it is a later generation design spec.

Third, every skateboard architecture I’ve seen allows for removal and replacement of the battery pack should the entire pack ever need replacement. Since there are no exhaust systems or prop shafts, the under vehicle access to the battery pack is clean and direct. Battery swaps wil be the equivalent of today’s engine swaps. In some cases easier.

Pictures below are some of the shots of the Kia EV6 skateboard that I took at the New York Auto Show a few weeks ago.

As for the batteries themselves, they will not be going to landfills. There are companies set up (and more on the way) for the singular purpose of remanufacturing EV batteries. I’ll be meeting with one of them sometime within the next couple weeks for a project I’m working on.

It basically looks like a giant RC car frame.