[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Im sure the Mustang FanBoys are saying that the 1LE that tied the R doesn't count because it is on a different day

Well of course it doesn't count when compared to these new times. The ZL1 was much slower this time around due to the weather difference, it's only obvious that the weather was a big factor.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I’ve said it before, given the choice…I would chose a ZL1 over a GT any day of the week…and a GT350R over anything Chevy currently offers. People just don’t look at it the same way they do any other domestic car.

My choice would depend on if the ZL1 and GT350R would be a DD or a weekend toy. ZL1 will easily be the better DD while the R would be the more fun toy to have on a weekend drive.

If the GT350 with the way I would want it was close to the price of my 2SS( and could get a similar deal as I got on my SS) and a dealer would let me drive it, I would bet I would have a hard time choosing. The GT350 would be the only Mustang that would tempt me to buy it over my Camaro. I would so love to drive one still though even though I am out of the market.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't. But it's not as bad as comparing Ring times. Bottom line if they were ran on the same day, the variables reduced. There are still variables even if same day/same driver, but what you are after are the fewest variables for a performance comparison.

Well, even on the MT episode, they said that the ZL1 M6 that got a 1:26:15 was better than the Porsche,,,...etc. So they counted it then. When the racing world looks at records of time of say the 'ring in Germany or whatever. They don't go, "well, that time doesn't count because there was a cross wind". They don't know anything about the conditions that happened on that day. Please, get real

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Exactly right, most of us don't want to scour the country for a deal.



Worded from a true Camaro Fanboy.

The GT is a tune and CAI away from matching the SS in straight line performance. Ford has relied heavily on the aftermarket to fill in the gaps….something every mustang owner fully understands. We purchase our vehicles not because they are the fastest, but because we prefer the styling, the ergonomics, the visibility etc. If I wanted to be the fastest on the block, I would still have several of my old fox bodies.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong…but the SS 1LE has never been tested against a GT350 or a GT350R. Some of you seem to think that simply because some of these times posted are close that they are equal in performance. Different track and weather conditions can easily add or shed 3 seconds to a lap time.

The funny thing is here, more people prefer the mustang and it’s inferior performance over the camaro….and nearly always have. You seem to think that performance is everything, and for most people that simply isn’t true.

You do also realize that the GT350R just was within spitting distance to a chassis you all claim is light years superior to the S550….and did so despite an absolutely enormous disparity in horsepower and torque.

One thing I can say for certain. Many of you can’t stand that the GT350R is considered a “special” vehicle by all media and collectors…so much so that it’s still being chosen when pit against Chevy’s upper echelon.

And Ford still hasn’t gotten to the real competition of the ZL1 yet…The GT500!

LOL, GT500 my ass. That thing is gonna be a straight line queen like the last one. And it likely will cost more than it is worth just like the GT350. And I'm not even sure it'll come out at all. It isn't slated for 18. So what, 2019? By then Chevy will have way more weapons in it's arsenal...like the Z28. And again with this "special" engine BS. Maybe if you keep repeating it to yourself and keep saying it here then others will start to believe you. There is nothing special about that engine. It got hyped up and MT threw it out there just so they could hand the GT350 a pat-on-the-back win despite it getting beat around the track. And your "spitting distance" is quite significant considering that they cost the same and the GT350 can't beat the standard ZL1 at ANYTHING, LOL!! So for the same price as a ZL1 I can tie the SS which is $30K cheaper, go almost half a second slower than the ZL1 around WS, 3 seconds slower than the ZL1 around Nurburgring, and be a full second slower than the ZL1 in the quarter mile...all with my "special" engine?? HAHAHAHA!! DUDE!! AND, the ZL1 has full options including Wifi, wireless charging, PDR, and others...you gotta option in AC on the GT350R bro, haha!! And relying heavily on the aftermarket to me just means that you're throwing garbage out there and letting others clean it up for you. The fact that everything you have to do to keep up with the competition involves tanking your warranty and then some speaks volumes to how pathetic the Mustang really is.

[human29]

The SS 1LE on the same track with the same drive ran the exact same time. The GT350 is = to the SS 350R = to 1LE (both track day cars). ZL1 is just an overall better car that you can live with everyday but also faster on most tracks. Now I am sure the ZL1 1LE which is the track focus car like the 350R once again will be in a league of its own.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, GT500 my ass. That thing is gonna be a straight line queen like the last one. And it likely will cost more than it is worth just like the GT350. And I'm not even sure it'll come out at all. It isn't slated for 18. So what, 2019? By then Chevy will have way more weapons in it's arsenal...like the Z28. And again with this "special" engine BS. Maybe if you keep repeating it to yourself and keep saying it here then others will start to believe you. There is nothing special about that engine. It got hyped up and MT threw it out there just so they could hand the GT350 a pat-on-the-back win despite it getting beat around the track. And your "spitting distance" is quite significant considering that they cost the same and the GT350 can't beat the standard ZL1 at ANYTHING, LOL!! So for the same price as a ZL1 I can tie the SS which is $30K cheaper, go almost half a second slower than the ZL1 around WS, 3 seconds slower than the ZL1 around Nurburgring, and be a full second slower than the ZL1 in the quarter mile...all with my "special" engine?? HAHAHAHA!! DUDE!! AND, the ZL1 has full options including Wifi, wireless charging, PDR, and others...you gotta option in AC on the GT350R bro, haha!! And relying heavily on the aftermarket to me just means that you're throwing garbage out there and letting others clean it up for you. The fact that everything you have to do to keep up with the competition involves tanking your warranty and then some speaks volumes to how pathetic the Mustang really is.

Both of your last posts are absolutely spot on. You're really letting him have it. Dirty.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

True, but if you watch the first zl1 video that Probst drove, he hit the corners much better and carried more speed through them then this latest video. Many spots he was 3mph slower in this latest video then the last. So it shows the zl1 can be driven much quicker then these latest results.

Don't forget for the previous ZL1 test they were tracking 2 ZL1's all day and had Chevy engineers there dialing in/tuning with Randy. That gave Randy a "much better" understanding/comfort with the car and the track. The ZL1 still wins.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Both of your last posts are absolutely spot on. You're really letting him have it. Dirty.

LOL!!

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Well, even on the MT episode, they said that the ZL1 M6 that got a 1:26:15 was better than the Porsche,,,...etc. So they counted it then. When the racing world looks at records of time of say the 'ring in Germany or whatever. They don't go, "well, that time doesn't count because there was a cross wind". They don't know anything about the conditions that happened on that day. Please, get real

Oh so now we are valuing what MT says? I thought we had decided they are biased and full of it. It's one thing to look at a lap time board and say X car is competitive with Y car, quite another to say X car can equal or beat Y car because they turned a similar or better time 6 months apart on the same track. If you turn a 11.5 at the strip one day, does that mean your car can run that same time every day you are at the strip regardless of weather? Of course not, but it doesn't mean your car isn't capable of doing it again or that it can't do better either. All you know is what you did that day under those conditions.

I got news for you, the racing world doesn't care about Ring times since there is no racing ever done on the course setup all these OEMs run their time on. Only internet bench racers use Ring times.

Now do racing teams and OEMs use the Ring for tuning and designing...without a doubt. That is the key benefit.

You realize there are drivers of different skills and cars running non-stock setups posting "official" Ring times? For example the new Type R recently posted a time there but the car was actually using R compound tires and a rollcage. Not really stock is it? There's no sanctioning body for the Ring times. It's basically up to the OEMs to decide what they run. Go take a look at that Giulia's latest Ring time and compare it to the ZL1. Do you really think it is that close to the ZL1's performance? Some idiots do but they can't explain how it ran almost the same time as a ATS-V at Chuckwalla.

So if we went with what you are suggesting, a 4 door Alfa which competes against a BMW and Caddy is actually competitive against a 5th gen Z/28 and a Honda Civic Type R is faster around a track than a Pagani Zonda C12 S and Audi R8 V10. Do you really believe that? Or do you see how utterly useless those Ring times are?

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Don't forget for the previous ZL1 test they were tracking 2 ZL1's all day and had Chevy engineers there dialing in/tuning with Randy. That gave Randy a "much better" understanding/comfort with the car and the track. The ZL1 still wins.

Be careful with that logic...it may go right over some heads.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by newmoon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its all based on the demand. If the demand was there for the ZL1 the Chevy dealers would be looking for MSRP+, but it isn't so there are discounts. The 350R is considered a special vehicle and still has a very strong demand, until this demand drops the price will remain inflated. Best short term bang for the buck is certainly the ZL1.

No, you forgot about the other half of that, Supply.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

They do seem to be a little bit more ban happy there...although I have had ban threats here too. People tend to complain when others have views that don't align with theirs.

Welcome to the world 2017.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Don't forget for the previous ZL1 test they were tracking 2 ZL1's all day and had Chevy engineers there dialing in/tuning with Randy. That gave Randy a "much better" understanding/comfort with the car and the track. The ZL1 still wins.

The only adjustment they did was adjust tire pressure. Show me were they kept tuning the Camaro's.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Oh so now we are valuing what MT says? I thought we had decided they are biased and full of it. It's one thing to look at a lap time board and say X car is competitive with Y car, quite another to say X car can equal or beat Y car because they turned a similar or better time 6 months apart on the same track. If you turn a 11.5 at the strip one day, does that mean your car can run that same time every day you are at the strip regardless of weather? Of course not, but it doesn't mean your car isn't capable of doing it again or that it can't do better either. All you know is what you did that day under those conditions.

I got news for you, the racing world doesn't care about Ring times since there is no racing ever done on the course setup all these OEMs run their time on. Only internet bench racers use Ring times.

Now do racing teams and OEMs use the Ring for tuning and designing...without a doubt. That is the key benefit.

You realize there are drivers of different skills and cars running non-stock setups posting "official" Ring times? For example the new Type R recently posted a time there but the car was actually using R compound tires and a rollcage. Not really stock is it? There's no sanctioning body for the Ring times. It's basically up to the OEMs to decide what they run. Go take a look at that Giulia's latest Ring time and compare it to the ZL1. Do you really think it is that close to the ZL1's performance? Some idiots do but they can't explain how it ran almost the same time as a ATS-V at Chuckwalla.

So if we went with what you are suggesting, a 4 door Alfa which competes against a BMW and Caddy is actually competitive against a 5th gen Z/28 and a Honda Civic Type R is faster around a track than a Pagani Zonda C12 S and Audi R8 V10. Do you really believe that? Or do you see how utterly useless those Ring times are?

I am not valuing MT subjective scoring.. I am saying at any track, a car runs. It gets a time, whether it is 1/4 mile or what. The time is recorded and kept, date, time, etc. Period. That is all I am saying. Like such in the link below. That is all I am saying, nothing more nothing less. When someone asks, what did that car run, well what does anyone do or say. Look!! Here is what it ran. Don't make it more than what I am saying.

So every run counts on any given day or driver or car or wind or rain. It still counts. It is logged and kept in some method of keeping records.

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs