[Sven59]

Originally Posted by DannyB

Mr. Wyndham or any other Mod,

Please move all of the pissing contest over drag racing to the Vs. forum where it belongs and ask the people that are constantly measuring their however small penises over the ZL1 and Hellcat to take that crap to where it belongs. This is supposed to be a thread with info on the new ZL1.

Thanks!!

Part of the reason we are even talking about the new ZL1 is competition, this car was built to perform so why not talk about that? Competition is why we have these cars. What is one of the first things that will happen when it is released? It will race against other cars. Now if we start talking about its towing capacity we would have an issue.

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by DannyB

Mr. Wyndham or any other Mod,

Please move all of the pissing contest over drag racing to the Vs. forum where it belongs and ask the people that are constantly measuring their however small penises over the ZL1 and Hellcat to take that crap to where it belongs. This is supposed to be a thread with info on the new ZL1.

Thanks!!

A
M
E
N

Sheesh...

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Tr6

We truly live in a great era right now. Like Kracka said to me, "It's like the 1960's all over again, era of the muscle cars! And this time not just brute power with crappy everything else but with power + braking + handling + comfort + technology".

Dodge hasn't gotten that memo yet and sadly, it is too late. More people will be buying the ZL1 and the next Camaro more than the hellcats (I got 3 confirmed cases of cancelling hellcat orders for the ZL1 already). I would agree that the hellcat is great for marketing purposes but it's all brute power and it can't even put down that power! Ford is more of a direct competitor and camaro let alone C7s has taken Ford back to the drawing board just to keep up.

I for one am looking forward to seeing the ZL1 in person and learning more about it. The initial release of it sure did answer a lot of questions we have but still left a lot more up in the air, which is quite normal! We will have to be patient and learn everything else in time. We are still learning stuff for the SS and LT... And it's been 5 months since deliveries started happening!

Maybe it's time for me to pick up a pen and start writing again, so I can start having access to stuff like this sooner lol. Feeding my own curiosity would be enough for me to abide by the NDA

I see the ZL1 being my monster in the garage and the SS as my road trip / extremely special vehicle. Looking so forward to all the info that'll be coming up! And let us not forget, the Chevy thunderstorm isn't over. This was just a massive thunder strike. 3/25/16. We shall see what will happen that day

Ya know what...nevermind.

I had a long post typed out, but I'm not going to muddy the waters here by arguing with a twit.

[Tr6]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Well there is the Hellcat Charger coupe everyone's been talking about...

I kid...I kid (mostly). It does bear a passing resemblance to the Charger Hellcat's front end. If you take the hood from the 12-14 SRT8, the front end treatment from the 2016 HellCharger and tweak it a little...it's similar to the Camaro.

For sedans, I'd take this over an AMG, M or a CTS-V especially considering the price is so much cheaper! Looks better too

Originally Posted by Chad0311

What is that supposed to mean?

Sounds like your original comment was to say that dodge didn't catch the memo on performance cars and this guy called you out on it - and rightly so. While they are heavier cars due to the chassis they sit on, Dodge has high praise for their power, comfort, technology (hint: uconnect is one of the best infotainment systems available) and while their handling isn't top tier it's not that bad. What it can offer is usable back seats and pretty incredible motors. The 392 and hellcat motor are fantastic.

That being said I think the new ZL1 is going to beat the hellcat in all measures. But that doesn't change the fact that your original comment was misinformed.

I truly do not mind being "called out", it's a discussion and I am on the forums to learn and if no one corrects me, I will not learn. Quite open to corrections and given correct info however, some are not. Like... Being able to accept that all manufacturers are doing their best to create ALL AROUND performance vehicles for DD, Track, Dragstrip, and Autox. They are all trying to provide their customers on ALL areas and then Hellcat being only good for 1 thing to me is behind the current time. In this day and age, performance vehicles are being made to be damn good ALL AROUND. Not just a straight line but also the handling ability, fun factor (I am sure hellcat is damn fun, not saying it is not), quality, performance, comfort etc. Which is EXACTLY my point. I am by no means am saying the hellcat shouldn't exist. Yes, it should and so should the Shelby's and Mustangs. It promotes a competitive environment within the auto industry thus, us the customers win.

Reality is that gen6 vehicles especially the ZL1 and the upcoming one isn't made for 1 thing and 1 thing only whereas no matter how great the hellcat is, it's still missing the ALL around which you just pointed out. As for technology, I wasn't just speaking of the bells and whistles I do agree the uconnect is pretty damn neat and does have some pretty niche abilities for the hellcat but I should've been more clear on that (keep in mind gen6 does have a few things the hellcat does not but I am not after "oh this is superior or inferior" could care less about that). Technology also involves the performance aspect of it as well. Stabilitrak is a much superior system and rightfully so due to the fact that the suspension setup, power delivery and everything is top notch. Hellcat was made for 1 thing and 1 thing only and it's does it job damn well.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Ya know what...nevermind.

I had a long post typed out, but I'm not going to muddy the waters here by arguing with a twit.

Oh please do.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Tr6

Oh please do.

Nah, you explained yourself better here and I've decided that the difference in a few aspects isn't worth a row.

[Tr6]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Nah, you explained yourself better here and I've decided that the difference in a few aspects isn't worth a row.

To me it actually does. The more aspects the better. Like I said, I am here to learn more and what people actually think. As long as... It's done on a much higher intelligent level than "ohhh I'll race you for pink slips bro". Which you sounded like you wouldn't so even though you are calling me a twit which is pretty funny actually so please do. Chad0311 did a damn good job by commenting (not being sarcastic) and proved the exact reason why I am on the forums. He did not try to insult, belittle and was an educated, intelligent post. Which I guess it very rare to come by on the internet.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Part of the reason we are even talking about the new ZL1 is competition, this car was built to perform so why not talk about that? Competition is why we have these cars. What is one of the first things that will happen when it is released? It will race against other cars. Now if we start talking about its towing capacity we would have an issue.

"When the flag drops the bull***t stops"

We know there is a working vehicle that will enter production. We have been given various details about the engine, and suspension. But there have not been any real acceleration times, 0 - 60 times, 1/4 mile times or track times. So until this happens, or a 2017 ZL1 lines up with a Hellcat, this conversation is strictly hypothetical and therefore endless and pointless.

I'm looking forward to ordering information, options, and above all pricing. But I doubt we are going to see any real performance results late in the year.

[SpeedIsLife]

One of the reasons why the Hellcat sold as well as it has, and it has extremely well, is because it was, is and will continue to be larger, more comfortable, more daily driver livable.

It IS focused on drag racing, Dodge was always very open on that. It's *competent* on a track, but that isn't it's focus. It handles well, better than it should for what it is and what it's based on, it stops well and really only needs more rubber to dramatically improve it's handling.

Will the Zl1 outhandle it? Without a doubt. Will it out brake it? yeah probably so. Will it be faster on a drag strip? Possibly, it depends on what the final power output will be for the ZL1.

However the Hellcat will be the better car for someone who wants to have a large, powerful super GT that they can also haul around a few friends or family, take it to work, take it on long road trips, etc. The Hellcat has a usable trunk, usable back seat, it's less cramped, more comfortable and in the real world will be just as capable of putting a smile on anyone's face. You don't need to take it to a track and throw it into corners to boast about it. It's happy being on the streets being a big, simple, happy muscle car.

Dodge didn't miss any memo, or is losing the game. They're playing an entirely different game on an entirely different field.

I apologize for the twit comment.

[Indydriver]

Congrats to the Camaro team...this car is a real tour de force.

But...

After listening to the hot laps a few times, it reinforces my annoyance at supercharger whine. Don't think I could live with it. I was really impressed with the last Z/28 in large part because they resisted the temptation of FI and instead built the best NA pushrod V8 they knew how to build. With the Z motor consigned to the ashbin of history, I guess the hope for a 550-600hp NA Camaro is just wishful thinking.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The Hellcat isn't the Z06's competitor, Dodge has the Viper ACR for that.

The Z06 even with Z07 package ($88k) doesn't quite match up to the ACR ($121k)in price or performance. The Z06 is priced on par with the SRT base model. The ACR offers insane track performance but simply isn't as appealing overall. After next year the Viper is nixed anyhow due to abysmal sales. Chevrolet sold 8,000 Z06's last year while Dodge sold only 600 Vipers at massive discounts.

Originally Posted by newmoon

In regards to your off the line comment the Z06 probably pulls it to 130 or so then the Hellcat walks around it.

We know the Z06 was not designed as a top speed car. Car&Driver tested both Z06 and Challenger to 150. The Challenger manual is slower than either Z06 but the Challenger auto is faster than either Z06. Of course put one tiny bend in the road and it's game over for the Hellcat.

Hellcat 6M: 19.1s
Hellcat 8A: 17.0s
Z06 7M: 18.1s
Z06 8A: 17.8s

Sadly Charger Hellcat sales have been really slow. Last I heard the Challenger Hellcat was outselling the Charger 7:1.

[camaro1&6]

The 10 speed is the difference maker, I'm sure alot of those who think a manual is the only way to go are considering the 10 speed . I think the A8 is awesome I can't wait to feel the A10 hats off, Thanks for the review My Wyndham Bowties forever!

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by Indydriver

Congrats to the Camaro team...this car is a real tour de force.

But...

After listening to the hot laps a few times, it reinforces my annoyance at supercharger whine. Don't think I could live with it. I was really impressed with the last Z/28 in large part because they resisted the temptation of FI and instead built the best NA pushrod V8 they knew how to build. With the Z motor consigned to the ashbin of history, I guess the hope for a 550-600hp NA Camaro is just wishful thinking.

Say what? The supercharger whine is one of the best parts...

[Tr6]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

One of the reasons why the Hellcat sold as well as it has, and it has extremely well, is because it was, is and will continue to be larger, more comfortable, more daily driver livable.

It IS focused on drag racing, Dodge was always very open on that. It's *competent* on a track, but that isn't it's focus. It handles well, better than it should for what it is and what it's based on, it stops well and really only needs more rubber to dramatically improve it's handling.

Will the Zl1 outhandle it? Without a doubt. Will it out brake it? yeah probably so. Will it be faster on a drag strip? Possibly, it depends on what the final power output will be for the ZL1.

However the Hellcat will be the better car for someone who wants to have a large, powerful super GT that they can also haul around a few friends or family, take it to work, take it on long road trips, etc. The Hellcat has a usable trunk, usable back seat, it's less cramped, more comfortable and in the real world will be just as capable of putting a smile on anyone's face. You don't need to take it to a track and throw it into corners to boast about it. It's happy being on the streets being a big, simple, happy muscle car.

Dodge didn't miss any memo, or is losing the game. They're playing an entirely different game on an entirely different field.


I apologize for the twit comment.

Thanks a mill! I really do appreciate it! This is exactly what I expected and I TRULY do appreciate that! I am ALWAYS wanting to hear another side to my opinion and trust me, I want to hear it as long as it is written like you have. I am NOT trying to prove the fact that I KNOW ALL, or Hellcat sucks etc. That's grade level crap. You commenting this gives me a MUCH better idea and knowledge and reason of existence for the hellcat besides "marketing" reasons haha.

I do not own a hellcat, I have seen it in person, did pulls against it (enclosed road) sat in it and did a walkthrough/start up but never actually driven one but I never said I have.

Anyhow, I appreciate your comment thank you for actually contributing very logically and intellectually!

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

The Z06 even with Z07 package ($88k) doesn't quite match up to the ACR ($121k)in price or performance. The Z06 is priced on par with the SRT base model. The ACR offers insane track performance but simply isn't as appealing overall. After next year the Viper is nixed anyhow due to abysmal sales. Chevrolet sold 8,000 Z06's last year while Dodge sold only 600 Vipers at massive discounts.



We know the Z06 was not designed as a top speed car. Car&Driver tested both Z06 and Challenger to 150. The Challenger manual is slower than either Z06 but the Challenger auto is faster than either Z06. Of course put one tiny bend in the road and it's game over for the Hellcat.

Hellcat 6M: 19.1s
Hellcat 8A: 17.0s
Z06 7M: 18.1s
Z06 8A: 17.8s

Sadly Charger Hellcat sales have been really slow. Last I heard the Challenger Hellcat was outselling the Charger 7:1.

Awesome info, thank you. I believe they made A LOT less Chargers than the Challenger as well. Plus more than half the dealerships I see are doing crazy amounts of ADMs (additional mark ups) on top of the MSRP plus there is looooooong wait to actually get them which people aren't too happy about. We waited 3 months or so for our cars, imagine waiting 7-8 months for it!

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DannyB

Mr. Wyndham or any other Mod,

Please move all of the pissing contest over drag racing to the Vs. forum where it belongs and ask the people that are constantly measuring their however small penises over the ZL1 and Hellcat to take that crap to where it belongs. This is supposed to be a thread with info on the new ZL1.

Thanks!!

There's too much to remove without disrupting the conversation flow.

What I will ask is that a more detailed ZL1 vs Hellcat conversation be taken either to a new thread in this section, or to the versus section.

Originally Posted by Indydriver

After listening to the hot laps a few times, it reinforces my annoyance at supercharger whine. Don't think I could live with it. I was really impressed with the last Z/28 in large part because they resisted the temptation of FI and instead built the best NA pushrod V8 they knew how to build. With the Z motor consigned to the ashbin of history, I guess the hope for a 550-600hp NA Camaro is just wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Say what? The supercharger whine is one of the best parts...

The supercharger whine splits opinions just as easily as auto/manual.

For what it's worth.....I very rarely heard it while there, in person. My ears are not a digital camera's.

When the car is accelerated away from you, all you hear it Thunder (and bangs, if an automatic). When the car is accelerating towards you, all you hear is intense air movement...like the woosh of a jet fighter. Even inside, the exhaust it overpoweringly loud. Every once in a while you hear that supercharger whine...but most of the time you don't.

For some reason - videotapes accentuate the whine, but it's actually not that loud.

(Personally, I prefer my engines to bellow, not whine.)