[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Do you need to be reminded the ZL1 barely beat the GT350R. You really believe that the 500 CF package won't beat it

That's what you want to see right? The CF GT500 vs the standard ZL1? I say fcku it, let em race. The ZL1 has absolutely nothing to lose. Nothing the CF GT500 does will ever make the ZL1 look bad. However, if the CF GT500 manages to lose, then you my friend will need a lot of excuses.

A well balanced and well built car will always be superior to a car that was just thrown together and given more HP. The ZL1 did not beat the GT350R because it had more power or cornered better or any of that. It won because it did everything well while all the GT350R could do well was handle. I see the same thing in the GT500. Ford in a rush threw that car together and then tried to squeak out more HP. So to me it is a mismatched bunch of parts. It weighs a lot and the weight is distributed to the front. And with that high revving engine, big blower, and only 7 speeds I am betting that it will be in some dead spots when coming out of a corner. The ZL1 being a pushrod with a small 1.7 liter blower and 10 speeds will always be in boost and in it's power band regardless of where it is on the track. Or if they use the M6 version then even more so. So from what I can see, the GT500 might have 760 HP...but I think you're gonna see just how amazing the ZL1 really is.

And remember, the GT350R had characteristics that were more favorable than the GT500 has including low weight and a manual trans to keep those revs up.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

That's what you want to see right? The CF GT500 vs the standard ZL1? I say fcku it, let em race. The ZL1 has absolutely nothing to lose. Nothing the CF GT500 does will ever make the ZL1 look bad. However, if the CF GT500 manages to lose, then you my friend will need a lot of excuses.

A well balanced and well built car will always be superior to a car that was just thrown together and given more HP. The ZL1 did not beat the GT350R because it had more power or cornered better or any of that. It won because it did everything well while all the GT350R could do well was handle. I see the same thing in the GT500. Ford in a rush threw that car together and then tried to squeak out more HP. So to me it is a mismatched bunch of parts. It weighs a lot and the weight is distributed to the front. And with that high revving engine, big blower, and only 7 speeds I am betting that it will be in some dead spots when coming out of a corner. The ZL1 being a pushrod with a small 1.7 liter blower and 10 speeds will always be in boost and in it's power band regardless of where it is on the track. Or if they use the M6 version then even more so. So from what I can see, the GT500 might have 760 HP...but I think you're gonna see just how amazing the ZL1 really is.

And remember, the GT350R had characteristics that were more favorable than the GT500 has including low weight and a manual trans to keep those revs up.

Is there something wrong with you? I was responding to your following statement. I have been saying all along that I think even the standard ZL1 will beat or match the CF GT500.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I get why you would say that but I don't really agree. No one has written off the zl1, but the fact is that the gt500 is a more expensive car with a lot more hp, so it will get compared to the zr1. For what it is, the zl1 still compares well and even with the extra hp and money it remains to be seen if the gt500 will beat the zl1 1le at it's own game. It should but doesn't mean that it will, and if that doesn't happen you'll have a car in a lower segment beating the big bad gt500 which will be a good look for the zl1. It'll be the little train that could lol.

As far as an upgraded zl1 with an lt5 or detuned lt5, I doubt it ever happens but I would assume it'll carry a price increase but I doubt it touches 90k, especially a non 1le version. Wouldn't necessarily need upgraded brakes, especially if they go for more of a straightline car, and no dct necessary the a10 would suffice. Dare I say the aftermarket would be more comfortable with an 10l90 than a new dct with unknown torque ratings. I know in the mustang community, that's been a concern of some in the know.

The starting price for the 500 is 73k and not 90k - 107k all these prices being thrown out there. Sure you can option it up, but hell you can option up a 36k SS on up to almost 55k as well.

Likely the CF Package will be a rare sale just as it is with the ZL1-1LE, unless you are a track rat there is no reason for that car, it makes no sense on the street.

I could see the base 500 with the handling package being the big seller at 75k.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Do you need to be reminded the ZL1 barely beat the GT350R. You really believe that the 500 CF package won't beat it

I'll put a disclaimer saying that this is just a rumour... but a well connected mustang tuner for Lund racing started that he got the scoop about the base gt500 not beating the gt350r in at least one track a few weeks back.

The R is a formidable package. A base gt350 is ss 1le level, a gt350r is clearly a level above that. That R does a lot.

The gt500 CF version should beat the zl1, total failure if it doesn't, but not necessarily the zl1 1le.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Is there something wrong with you?

Yes.

Originally Posted by newmoon

I was responding to your following statement. I have been saying all along that I think even the standard ZL1 will beat or match the CF GT500.

I'm not sure what you want to hear bro. A few posts ago you tried to count out the ZLE and the C8 leaving only the ZL1 against either the Base GT500 or CF GT500 or both. I said that if you want to count only the standard ZL1 then yes, I do think it will beat both cars around a track. In a straight line I think they will initially have a difficult time trying to launch the GT500. So I would not be surprised if the ZL1 beats the GT500 in initial testing just like it tested faster than the Hellcats early on. Those are my thoughts. And even if the ZL1 loses it still is an awesome car. The fact that it will take a car costing $30K more and having 110 more HP and 6 years of development to beat the ZL1 says a lot. If the GT500 loses then that will just be an embarrassment. I'm rooting for GM!!

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The starting price for the 500 is 73k and not 90k - 107k all these prices being thrown out there. Sure you can option it up, but hell you can option up a 36k SS on up to almost 55k as well.

Likely the CF Package will be a rare sale just as it is with the ZL1-1LE, unless you are a track rat there is no reason for that car, it makes no sense on the street.

I could see the base 500 with the handling package being the big seller at 75k.

I'm talking about the gt500 cf when I mention the high prices more comparable to a corvette. The regular gt500 will beat the zl1 in a straight line but not in everything else guaranteed, too fat... I can also guarantee that almost no gt500s with a handling pack will be going for 75k.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Is there something wrong with you? I was responding to your following statement. I have been saying all along that I think even the standard ZL1 will beat or match the CF GT500.

I don't think that will be the case. I fully expect the CFTP version of the GT500 to beat the standard ZL1, and it might even beat the ZLE (I'm talking about road course here). It all comes down to aero. There is a big HP increase with the GT500CFTP, add in the carbon fiber wheels , the DCT, as well as the big brakes. If there is enough aero, it could carry enough speed through big sweeping turns, AND us the HP advantage on the big straights. Obviously, it depends on the track, but I think the CFTP can do it. Ford hasn't been sitting around doing nothing the last couple of years. This car is late for a reason, they were still trying to meet their metrics. Now that it's finnaly out, it should win.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I don't think that will be the case. I fully expect the CFTP version of the GT500 to beat the standard ZL1, and it might even beat the ZLE (I'm talking about road course here). It all comes down to aero. There is a big HP increase with the GT500CFTP, add in the carbon fiber wheels , the DCT, as well as the big brakes. If there is enough aero, it could carry enough speed through big sweeping turns, AND us the HP advantage on the big straights. Obviously, it depends on the track, but I think the CFTP can do it. Ford hasn't been sitting around doing nothing the last couple of years. This car is late for a reason, they were still trying to meet their metrics. Now that it's finnaly out, it should win.

This ^ I jsut want to see them reviewed now. And we should see it in the next few months or so I would imagine. And I hope they do it right.

Hellcat RE Widebody VS GT500 VS ZL1 A10

GT500 CFTP VS ZLE A10 I do think it will depend on the track. Obviously a track with long straights will favor the GT500 and a tight technical track would favor the ZLE. Even if the CFTP does put up better lap times than the ZLE, to me it will depend on the margin of victory. if it just barely edges it out then I will golf clap to ford for at least being able to do it. Now if it beats it by a couple of seconds, then bravo they built an amazing car and justified its price tag- I don't think this will be the outcome though.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The starting price for the 500 is 73k and not 90k - 107k all these prices being thrown out there. Sure you can option it up, but hell you can option up a 36k SS on up to almost 55k as well.

Likely the CF Package will be a rare sale just as it is with the ZL1-1LE, unless you are a track rat there is no reason for that car, it makes no sense on the street.

I could see the base 500 with the handling package being the big seller at 75k.

This is the version that is exciting to me, so I fully agree with you.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

This is the version that is exciting to me, so I fully agree with you.

That will be an impressive street and all around car no doubt. Hopefully next month a lot of questions will be answered.

At the end of the day though the gt500 no matter how good it is will not make the zl1 totally obsolete. The zl1 will still be cheaper and will be the only one (between zl1 and gt500) offered in a manual for those of us who still value that.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I'll put a disclaimer saying that this is just a rumour... but a well connected mustang tuner for Lund racing started that he got the scoop about the base gt500 not beating the gt350r in at least one track a few weeks back.

The R is a formidable package. A base gt350 is ss 1le level, a gt350r is clearly a level above that. That R does a lot.

The gt500 CF version should beat the zl1, total failure if it doesn't, but not necessarily the zl1 1le.

I'm sorry ...but the base GT500 should beat the ZL1 1LE due to its HUGE power advantage and higher msrp! (M6G logic)

Plus - Its a Shelby! "Its special"

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I don't think that will be the case. I fully expect the CFTP version of the GT500 to beat the standard ZL1, and it might even beat the ZLE (I'm talking about road course here). It all comes down to aero. There is a big HP increase with the GT500CFTP, add in the carbon fiber wheels , the DCT, as well as the big brakes. If there is enough aero, it could carry enough speed through big sweeping turns, AND us the HP advantage on the big straights. Obviously, it depends on the track, but I think the CFTP can do it. Ford hasn't been sitting around doing nothing the last couple of years. This car is late for a reason, they were still trying to meet their metrics. Now that it's finnaly out, it should win.

Well stated. This is pretty much what I expect to see.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

That will be an impressive street and all around car no doubt. Hopefully next month a lot of questions will be answered.

At the end of the day though the gt500 no matter how good it is will not make the zl1 totally obsolete. The zl1 will still be cheaper and will be the only one (between zl1 and gt500) offered in a manual for those of us who still value that.

The weight is still a bit much for me. I know a lot of people don't care, or say they don't, but over 4200 pounds is insanity. This is the reason a Hellcat has never been on my list, even though they are very affordable in the used market and pretty awesome.

Excited to see the reviews of the driving feel nonetheless. Will wait and see if Ford can pull it off, but I think in the end of the day the weight will prove too much for my liking. I think I could justify a used one later on, but $75K for 4200+...nah...

And yes, no manual......no thanks. Had a DCT, and while awesome it was also boring. Perfect for a performance sedan/SUV etc....but I have to have some gears to row in my performance coupes. First car was a stick('96 Z28), and I just love the experience too much to be fully satisfied with anything else.

[GuywithL86]

Its not the weight or the handling that makes the hellcat suck, its the traction

The hellcat simply cannot put the power down at low speeds without slicks on. That is the most important thing for a street car. Seriously guys are reporting 0-60’s if like 4.5-5 seconds on street tires. What good is 700hp if you can’t use it? It’s only good for highway pulls.

The only good vehicle with a hellcat motor is a trackhawk