[NW-99SS]

Interesting. I don't know why Ford (or Mopar for that matter) would want to publicize hero times that can't be replicated.

Not a single person has come close to the 9.65 Stock Demon claim (with Demon crate parts) - I call that a fail.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Interesting. I don't know why Ford (or Mopar for that matter) would want to publicize hero times that can't be replicated.

Not a single person has come close to the 9.65 Stock Demon claim (with Demon crate parts) - I call that a fail.

That is why I find it odd any make would publish any hero times. If anything back off a bit because there are just so many variables especially in the 1/4. At least on a road course you know driver skill is probably the biggest variable

Track prep, track temp, DA, etc. I think the Demon run was done at Atco in late november....talk about running in a mineshaft

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That is why I find it odd any make would publish any hero times. If anything back off a bit because there are just so many variables especially in the 1/4. At least on a road course you know driver skill is probably the biggest variable

Track prep, track temp, DA, etc. I think the Demon run was done at Atco in late november....talk about running in a mineshaft

I agree, but also tend to notice GM publishes times based on their testing on unprepped surfaces.

The Demon run also had more the twice the prep of any on a full race day...I actually like the car, but the 9.65 will never be replicated.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL!! As much as I would like to have the ZL1, Hellcat, and C8 I think it is better to ditch the Hellcat. I love that car but it is just too big and it does not handle well at all. It has way too much body roll even in light corners. I bought it because it was one of my dream cars since it was announced and it was a blast to own for 3 years. I'm glad I got to have one. And man it was an exhilarating ride especially at WOT in the low gears. That thing has probably the most exciting and wicked take off I have ever experienced...once you get it rolling that is. But after 3 years I gotta say I'm more in favor of cars that corner well AND accelerate well.

If Dodge can find a way to shave off some weight and give it better handling capabilities even by just a little and keep it at a reasonable price then I'd be willing to get another one. But I don't see any of that happening any time soon if at all. So for now I can say it was an experience and I enjoyed it and it is time to move on.

I am so with you on that preference. And while I have not even Driven a Hellcat, I think it would be fun. Make mine a Charger Hellcat for my daily. Since I work from home think of all the $$ I will save in gas with the HC sitting in my garage.

But back to my reality. I think I am going back to a 6th gen M6 SS. To me this is the most performance and excitement for the dollar of any car. Period. Here make mine another 2016 again off warranty. And it has the cheapest HPT tune starter cost of the later gen6 Camaros.

[cbr1100xx]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I am so with you on that preference. And while I have not even Driven a Hellcat, I think it would be fun. Make mine a Charger Hellcat for my daily. Since I work from home think of all the $$ I will save in gas with the HC sitting in my garage.

But back to my reality. I think I am going back to a 6th gen M6 SS. To me this is the most performance and excitement for the dollar of any car. Period. Here make mine another 2016 again off warranty. And it has the cheapest HPT tune starter cost of the later gen6 Camaros.

Work from home too. Have an SS. Gas isn't much of an issue since I fill up maybe once every 2 weeks.

I drove a few Charger and Challenger Scat Packs (no HCs). Like them both but they feel HUGE and are not nimble by any means and don't like to pushed particularly in the corners. The SS is quite the opposite. No brainer to go with the SS for me.

Had a 700hp Whippled Mustang GT too. It was fun but impossible to launch on the street without sliding all over the place. 500+hp and RWD=beaten by a Tesla model 3 off the line.

[newmoon]

I remember many being skeptical of Chevy's Ring times for the 5th Gen ZL1 and Z28, because somebody is skeptical does that now discount the times?

My advice instead of lining up the excuses and accusations of cheating, why not have a conversation in regards to what will be Chevy's answer to the 500 in Camaro form?

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I remember many being skeptical of Chevy's Ring times for the 5th Gen ZL1 and Z28, because somebody is skeptical does that now discount the times?

My advice instead of lining up the excuses and accusations of cheating, why not have a conversation in regards to what will be Chevy's answer to the 500 in Camaro form?

The top optioned GT500 is over 100k. I think Chevrolet's answer to that is "Lol".

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

The top optioned GT500 is over 100k. I think Chevrolet's answer to that is "Lol".

That is an excuse! What is Chevy's answer going to be? You also understand the base price is 73k right? When the base 500 smokes the ZL1 by 4-6 tenths or more in the 1/4 what is the excuse then?

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

That is an excuse! What is Chevy's answer going to be? You also understand the base price is 73k right? When the base 500 smokes the ZL1 by 4-6 tenths or more in the 1/4 what is the excuse then?

There wont be any excuses. The Redeye and Widebody Hellcats are already faster than the ZL1. And 99% of us dont really care. Now after much waiting and anticipation the 4200 pound GT500 might not even beat the Redeye. And it might not beat the Camaro on a track either. So just like its other brethren the GT* and the GT350 it might just end up as the runner up in everything. I would wait for its performance data if I were you. This much I know: The ZL1 will go faster than 180.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

There shouldn’t be any illusions that Revan Evan (Smith) is an independent source testing Mustangs. He is a hired media consultant paid to “expose your brand”. ...because Ford doesn’t publish times.

I might be wrong but if I remember correctly he was also the chief editor for Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords magazine. I'd hardly call anything he does official when that magazine specialized in writing articles on how to build sleeper cars and how to hide mods including nitrous in one issue. But whatever it takes to win I guess.

Originally Posted by newmoon

I remember many being skeptical of Chevy's Ring times for the 5th Gen ZL1 and Z28, because somebody is skeptical does that now discount the times?

My advice instead of lining up the excuses and accusations of cheating, why not have a conversation in regards to what will be Chevy's answer to the 500 in Camaro form?

Were those times ran and published by a magazine like MT or C&D or were they published by some other party who is not an official source and not affiliated with a reputable company like MT or C&D?

Originally Posted by newmoon

That is an excuse! What is Chevy's answer going to be? You also understand the base price is 73k right? When the base 500 smokes the ZL1 by 4-6 tenths or more in the 1/4 what is the excuse then?

GM has an answer for the GT500. They answered the 2020 GT500 way back in 2017 and 2018. It is called the "ZL1" and the "ZL1-1LE".

Now get this thru your thick skull...everyone here is very well aware that the GT500 is going to beat the ZL1 by about 4 tenths. Not one single person here is bothered by that. The ZL1 runs an 11.4-11.6 depending on conditions/driver/track. Depending on those same conditions the GT500 will run around 11.1 in the quarter. Now IF it can control itself on launch and IF the engine doesn't overpower the tires and suspension then it might be good for a 10.9. But I doubt it will do much better than that. Remember how horrible the Hellcats and Redeyes and Demons were at running fast times? Well I think the GT500 is going to have the same issue.

Anyway, nobody gives a flying fcku that the GT500 will be faster in a straight line. Ford had 6 years to build a straight line car. So it damn well better beat the ZL1. In fact, I hope it does beat the ZL1 because if it doesn't then that means that Chevy truly has no competition.

The battle for supremacy will be on a track. That is where the GT500 has to prove itself. GM built a monster that cannot be beat by anything even close to it's price range. The GT500 will be no different. The Base is $10K more than the ZL1 and $4K more than the ZLE. And it has no shot against the ZLE. I also put my money that the Base will get it's lunch taken by the ZL1. The CF version is $24K more than the ZLE and $30K more than the ZLE. And from what I can see it doesn't stand a snowflake's chance in Hell against the ZLE. It might, MIGHT, maybe, beat the ZL1 around a track. Maybe.

And I'm not even going to throw the $65K C8 Z51 into the mix because that is just gonna embarrass the Hell out of the GT500.

So the REAL question is...what is FORD's answer to the ZLE since the GT500 costs much more and is gonna get destroyed? GM doesn't need to do anything but sit back and watch the $70K car they built 3-4 years ago beat the crap out of the best thing Ford can put on the planet at $94K. Not to mention, any of us Camaro fans can go and buy a ZL1 or ZLE right now for a reasonable price if we wanted. Let's see how many Mustang fans can show up at a track with anything stock that Ford makes that can beat a ZLE at anything.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

There wont be any excuses. The Redeye and Widebody Hellcats are already faster than the ZL1. And 99% of us dont really care. Now after much waiting and anticipation the 4200 pound GT500 might not even beat the Redeye. And it might not beat the Camaro on a track either. So just like its other brethren the GT* and the GT350 it might just end up as the runner up in everything. I would wait for its performance data if I were you. This much I know: The ZL1 will go faster than 180.

It won't beat the ZL1. Not when it weighs 4200 pounds and most of that weight is distributed to the nose. It's like a fat kid with a 90 pound snot clot hanging off his face trying to outrun the school's track star. It ain't happening.

And in the off chance that the impossible happens then it very well SHOULD beat the ZL1 and ZLE given it's been in development since 5th Gen Camaro days and it costs the average Mustang GT guy's entire yearly salary more than the ZL1 does...or you could say it costs what you would pay for a brand new ZL1 AND a brand new Mustang GT...or the price of 3 Mustang GTs.

When the GT500 loses it will have no excuse. If it manages to win then it damn well should have. The ZL1 and ZLE both have absolutely nothing to lose.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I might be wrong but if I remember correctly he was also the chief editor for Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords magazine. I'd hardly call anything he does official when that magazine specialized in writing articles on how to build sleeper cars and how to hide mods including nitrous in one issue. But whatever it takes to win I guess.


Were those times ran and published by a magazine like MT or C&D or were they published by some other party who is not an official source and not affiliated with a reputable company like MT or C&D?

GM has an answer for the GT500. They answered the 2020 GT500 way back in 2017 and 2018. It is called the "ZL1" and the "ZL1-1LE".

Now get this thru your thick skull...everyone here is very well aware that the GT500 is going to beat the ZL1 by about 4 tenths. Not one single person here is bothered by that. The ZL1 runs an 11.4-11.6 depending on conditions/driver/track. Depending on those same conditions the GT500 will run around 11.1 in the quarter. Now IF it can control itself on launch and IF the engine doesn't overpower the tires and suspension then it might be good for a 10.9. But I doubt it will do much better than that. Remember how horrible the Hellcats and Redeyes and Demons were at running fast times? Well I think the GT500 is going to have the same issue.

Anyway, nobody gives a flying fcku that the GT500 will be faster in a straight line. Ford had 6 years to build a straight line car. So it damn well better beat the ZL1. In fact, I hope it does beat the ZL1 because if it doesn't then that means that Chevy truly has no competition.

The battle for supremacy will be on a track. That is where the GT500 has to prove itself. GM built a monster that cannot be beat by anything even close to it's price range. The GT500 will be no different. The Base is $10K more than the ZL1 and $4K more than the ZLE. And it has no shot against the ZLE. I also put my money that the Base will get it's lunch taken by the ZL1. The CF version is $24K more than the ZLE and $30K more than the ZLE. And from what I can see it doesn't stand a snowflake's chance in Hell against the ZLE. It might, MIGHT, maybe, beat the ZL1 around a track. Maybe.

And I'm not even going to throw the $65K C8 Z51 into the mix because that is just gonna embarrass the Hell out of the GT500.

So the REAL question is...what is FORD's answer to the ZLE since the GT500 costs much more and is gonna get destroyed? GM doesn't need to do anything but sit back and watch the $70K car they built 3-4 years ago beat the crap out of the best thing Ford can put on the planet at $94K. Not to mention, any of us Camaro fans can go and buy a ZL1 or ZLE right now for a reasonable price if we wanted. Let's see how many Mustang fans can show up at a track with anything stock that Ford makes that can beat a ZLE at anything.

The BH is amazing.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The BH is amazing.

You asked a question did you not? You asked what was GM's answer in the form of a Camaro that would beat the GT500. I answered you. The ZL1 is going to beat the Base GT500 around a track. The ZLE is going to beat both the Base and the CF GT500 around a track. They both are significantly cheaper than the GT500 and have been out and untouched for 3-4 years before the GT500 showed up. The GT500 has been in development for 6 years.

In a straight line the GT500 has no reason not to be faster. But how much faster and if the extra $30K is worth it is the question. Will the GT500 be faster than the Redeye? No.

So the GT500 will be slower than the cheaper Redeye in a straight line. It will be slower than the much cheaper ZLE around a track. And in top speed it will be slower than both and the only one 20 MPH shy of the 200 MPH mark.

It will also be slower around a track and have a slower top speed than the C8 Z51 while being $30K more expensive.

So there is your answer.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You asked a question did you not? You asked what was GM's answer in the form of a Camaro that would beat the GT500. I answered you. The ZL1 is going to beat the Base GT500 around a track. The ZLE is going to beat both the Base and the CF GT500 around a track. They both are significantly cheaper than the GT500 and have been out and untouched for 3-4 years before the GT500 showed up. The GT500 has been in development for 6 years.

In a straight line the GT500 has no reason not to be faster. But how much faster and if the extra $30K is worth it is the question. Will the GT500 be faster than the Redeye? No.

So the GT500 will be slower than the cheaper Redeye in a straight line. It will be slower than the much cheaper ZLE around a track. And in top speed it will be slower than both and the only one 20 MPH shy of the 200 MPH mark.

It will also be slower around a track and have a slower top speed than the C8 Z51 while being $30K more expensive.

So there is your answer.

You have no idea whether the ZL1 will beat a base or not on the track, same for the Z1LE vs CFP, what we do know is that the ZL1 is going to get its a!! handed to it on the street and strip and Chevy has no answer in the present Camaro line-up why?