[zaimer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Why did Challenger / Charger sales take off? Because for almost two years, Dodge offered $199/mo leases on 5.7L models in major markets. A lot of people showed up at the dealership to take advantage of that. A few no doubt got upsold into a ScatPack.

As for “free advertising”? Not hardly. It’s called “product placement”, and GM Marketing paid a pretty penny to feature Camaro and a number of other GM products in the Transformer movies. Product placement is usually much more effective than advertising. I bet everyone here that’s of a certain age knows what model car Starsky and Hutch drove. Even though it’s been a dead brand for 20-30 years. Ford paid a lot for that.

Yes, I remember when you could even pick up a Hellcat (Charger or Challenger) lease for almost pennies on the dollar. I certainly agree with the idea of upselling as well; getting the customer in the door is winning half of the battle.

You are exactly right. The most successful marketing (whatever the form may be) is when the customer is sold on a product and/or service without acknowledging it. Proper product placement does just that, and is why it is more effective than your typical advertising.

Out of curiosity - what did you do at GM?

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I think it comes down to a situation where companies are fighting for better recognition among the vehicle types people already want to buy. What we keep debating here is spending money to let people know a car exists. You see ads for trucks and SUVs because people are tripping over each other to buy trucks and SUVs so the brands are going “pick me, pick me”. People aren’t tripping over each other to buy sports cars, so there’s no sense spending money to lure the 7 people who are.

The ads are there because people are buying them. Our conversations tend to stray towards “if only there were ads, people would buy them.” Nope.

I understand that other vehicles would realistically get the lion's share of advertising to protect and increase market share in those segments. THat's not the problem.

There's essentially no effort at all going on to make people aware that Camaros and sedans even exist. Out of sight, out of mind. Camaro recently lost a significant piece of its not-advertising advertising with the end of the Hawaii 5.0 series.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Which is why i think chevy will turn to a CUV and abandon those who dont transition over to their competitors

IOW, the reward for those who would remain loyal to Chevrolet over the Camaro as a sport coupe is for Chevrolet to abandon them.

Being abandoned pretty much sucks when you're the one left holding the short straw.


Norm

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

IOW, the reward for those who would remain loyal to Chevrolet over the Camaro as a sport coupe is for Chevrolet to abandon them.

Being abandoned pretty much sucks when you're the one left holding the short straw.


Norm

Or one could argue the sporty coupe buyers have abandoned Chevrolet leaving them no other choice with the Camaro other than adapt or die

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior85

i see often about how advertising is just a waste and serves no purpose...

It is definitely too late to try to save the Camaro through advertising, I agree there.
But you cannot tell me that Dodge's 8 year old Challenger just all of a sudden became popular just because they put the Hellcat engine in it.
Dodge commercials were awesome, Theyy really pushed the octane and adrenaline, and they had the Fast & Furious series..... and they were pushing product placement on Fast & Loud as well.

That marketing and advertisement gave the cool factor to an old car. Now look at it.

The story that Chevy INTENTIONALLY made Camaro the best performing car, at the expense of everything else a car is expected to do, sounds plausible, but I have my doubts.
The notion that Chevy would intentionally sacrifice sales to please some purists is hard to buy into. Why intentionally throw in the towel to Ford and Dodge?


The Camaro did not blow up in 2009 because the world was so happy it was back. The Transformers movie line had a huge impact there.
Am I to believe that Chevy took that for granted and never accounted for that free advertising? Those movies fade out and so does the car.



Side note...
Chevy advertises SUV's and Trucks because that is where the profit margin is. It isn't about what the consumer wants or needs, its about what makes the most money. Those two sell the best, so why advertise? Or do they sell better because of advertising? ..... Mix of both, but either way, thats what GM wants to push, because they make more money per vehicle selling SUVs and Trucks than by selling cars,

The difference with the Charger/Challenger getting commercials is Dodge only has 5 models total, they have to advertise something lol

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Or one could argue the sporty coupe buyers have abandoned Chevrolet leaving them no other choice with the Camaro other than adapt or die

You know, a kid down the street from me walked by a few times when I had it in the driveway, right after I bought the car last year. He's maybe about 8-10 years old. The first time he told me what a cool car it is. And the second time he stopped to look I told him to come on up and have a seat in the driver's seat. His eyes got big, and he just looked around like he was in a trance.

When he got out I opened the hood and had him stand right there while I started it. I will tell you this kid reminded me of me when I was his age. He absolutely loves it. It was really cool to see.

I'm telling you this because when he gets old enough to be able to afford a new car, he most likely won't have a Camaro to choose from.

It won't be due to lack of interest. It will be due to stupidity from General Motors.

With all the degrees the people who make these decisions at General Motors have they completely miss the real world, where real people with emotion and spirit live every day. Not in some ivory tower full of pinheads in suits with spreadsheets and reports.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Or one could argue the sporty coupe buyers have abandoned Chevrolet leaving them no other choice with the Camaro other than adapt or die

Or you could argue Ford and Chrysler build cars the customer wants. GM builds Camaros that can be assembled with whatever parts they have left over from the cars they actually want to build.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Or you could argue Ford and Chrysler build cars the customer wants. GM builds Camaros that can be assembled with whatever parts they have left over from the cars they actually want to build.

That’s not really a fair assessment. What vehicles were on Zeta architecture? GTO, G8, Chevy SS, and Camaro. What vehicles were on Alpha? ATS / CT4, CTS / CT5 and Camaro. In both cases, Camaro was the highest volume product.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by zaimer

...

Out of curiosity - what did you do at GM?

Over the years, everything from manufacturing engineering, to service engineering, to product portfolio planning to competitor and industry intel. Pretty much in that order, with portfolio planning and intel being the last 20 years that I was there.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Or one could argue the sporty coupe buyers have abandoned Chevrolet leaving them no other choice with the Camaro other than adapt or die

GM has a long history of abandoning their customer. The law suit they recently won over building vehicles with cheap China plastic dashes cracking all to hell doesn't help their cause. A vehicle with a cracking dash history of 2007-2013 isn't a very good incentive for a customer to buy another piece of crap. Not for $50k. GM can sell to someone else, just like the years of the pos A8 transmission. Instead of doing the right thing GM simply told their loyal buyer to piss off. Perhaps a more consumer friendly car manufacturer would like that business.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That’s not really a fair assessment. What vehicles were on Zeta architecture? GTO, G8, Chevy SS, and Camaro. What vehicles were on Alpha? ATS / CT4, CTS / CT5 and Camaro. In both cases, Camaro was the highest volume product.

GM did ok when they used to build what the market wanted. Now GM tells you what you want, hence low sales numbers. GM are a bunch of followers, they always come up too little too late. They could have done so much better with the Camaro. It's a handling sob but it's not all that easy for a wide range of customer to enter and exit, nor is the low roof/high beltline no back foot room
an attractive selling point. It is far too expensive for a young buyer to consider, then charging $150 for a black bowtie is just plain stupid.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Or you could argue Ford and Chrysler build cars the customer wants. GM builds Camaros that can be assembled with whatever parts they have left over from the cars they actually want to build.

Lol the Camaro is so far from this.

Pretty much every OEM reuses the good parts, switches, clusters. But for the most part reusing the Alpha architecture is what makes the Camaro both great and expensive.

But I would be curious as to what “leftovers parts GM did use on the Camaro” you find objectionable.

Agree on making what the customer wants. Clearly being 3rd is proof of that.

[RealG]

Dodge did a survey and found that a very very high percentage, like 90% plus people have no interest in going around in circles and corners fast. they like straight line racing. Drag, Street racing and roll racing. That’s where young , old , all buyers of these muscle cars use them.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Or one could argue the sporty coupe buyers have abandoned Chevrolet leaving them no other choice with the Camaro other than adapt or die

I suppose that could be said.

But of the three companies building personal sporty coupes, you'd think somebody at Chevrolet would have realized that Chevy had the least to gain and the most to lose by settling on styling somewhat closer to concept car/hardcore sport than either of the others. That returns the 'abandonment' ball back to Chevy's court.


Norm