[Rayvan]

Originally Posted by genxer

6th Gen versus Model 3 weight seems to be about a (correction) 200-400 lb difference (33xx to 35xx base, 36xx 1SS to 40xx mid 3, 38xx ZLE to 40xx top 3). And yeah, everyone realizes there's no awd Camaro, but it's wider. There was an earlier post calling them equal.

Tires to hide handling mass is a dirty trick.

Last August, my son and I drove his newly purchased 1SS1LE from Nashville, Tennesse to Bay Area (CA) in under 3 days. First two days we drove for about 11 hours, and covered over 1,000 miles in each of those days. In Arizona and New Mexico, the temps were over 112 deg. (F).

With both us us driving, switching seats every tank of cas, we'd averaged 26 MPG, and our average speed for the trip, including gas stops, and meals was over 86 mph. The air conditioning kept us comfortable, and the Recaro seats were amazing. We had no fatigue whatsoever. The car had no hiccups, and ran absolutely perfect for the entire trip.

I'll keep an open mind. When an electric car can come close do what we did, I'll consider one.

From what I'm seeing, They're even close yet.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Rayvan

Last August, my son and I drove his newly purchased 1SS1LE from Nashville, Tennesse to Bay Area (CA) in under 3 days. First two days we drove for about 11 hours, and covered over 1,000 miles in each of those days. In Arizona and New Mexico, the temps were over 112 deg. (F).

With both us us driving, switching seats every tank of cas, we'd averaged 26 MPG, and our average speed for the trip, including gas stops, and meals was over 86 mph. The air conditioning kept us comfortable, and the Recaro seats were amazing. We had no fatigue whatsoever. The car had no hiccups, and ran absolutely perfect for the entire trip.

I'll keep an open mind. When an electric car can come close do what we did, I'll consider one.

From what I'm seeing, They're even close yet.

How many times in the life of a vehicle do you expect to do this sort of trip?
Would you honestly base your purchase of a $40k+ vehicle on the ability to do something you might only do once in a lifetime?

Now, as I ask those questions, I fully realize that many many Americans spec their pickups and SUVs with capability they might only use once or twice a year.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Rayvan

Last August, my son and I drove his newly purchased 1SS1LE from Nashville, Tennesse to Bay Area (CA) in under 3 days. First two days we drove for about 11 hours, and covered over 1,000 miles in each of those days. In Arizona and New Mexico, the temps were over 112 deg. (F).

With both us us driving, switching seats every tank of cas, we'd averaged 26 MPG, and our average speed for the trip, including gas stops, and meals was over 86 mph. The air conditioning kept us comfortable, and the Recaro seats were amazing. We had no fatigue whatsoever. The car had no hiccups, and ran absolutely perfect for the entire trip.

I'll keep an open mind. When an electric car can come close do what we did, I'll consider one.

From what I'm seeing, They're even close yet.

What's the point in these extreme examples? It's not going to dictate what a company does. It's not going to dictate what the vast majority of car buyers do.

I can make the same kind of example the other way.

When a gas powered car can go 0-60 in 2 seconds with a full tank of gas and go 500 miles before filling up and i can start it without waking the neighbors or getting pulled over in some uppity town from noise.. Then i'll consider one.

My extreme example doesn't mesh with the vast majority of use cases for electric cars ...nor would it be expected that gas powered cars have to match that to be relevant.

can you make an electric sports car that is relevant to the use cases of most people today? Definitely. That's all that's needed for the hope of the future of the camaro as a successful EV. That and a better body styling than the 6th gen ...since apparently people would rather buy anything else.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

What's the point in these extreme examples? It's not going to dictate what a company does. It's not going to dictate what the vast majority of car buyers do.

I can make the same kind of example the other way.

When a gas powered car can go 0-60 in 2 seconds with a full tank of gas and go 500 miles before filling up and i can start it without waking the neighbors or getting pulled over in some uppity town from noise.. Then i'll consider one.

My extreme example doesn't mesh with the vast majority of use cases for electric cars ...nor would it be expected that gas powered cars have to match that to be relevant.

can you make an electric sports car that is relevant to the use cases of most people today? Definitely. That's all that's needed for the hope of the future of the camaro as a successful EV. That and a better body styling than the 6th gen ...since apparently people would rather buy anything else.

That’s not an extreme example at all. Lots of people drive hundreds and hundreds of miles within a couple days on trips and vacations. My stepdad is from South Carolina and we’re in Cleveland - every summer we drive straight through to Greenville/Spartanburg from Cleveland with just breaks to fill the tank and use the bathroom. In the same break.

[genxer]

I think Rally cross cars are about 2 sec to 60, and those are fwd based puke (w/awd). They could do it on the street with awd, gearing with gas. They're holding back, partly to make EV look better.

If a job loss situation means you spend the week at a motel and drive a few hundred miles home for the weekend, you will want to rush home and not spend one extra minute at a charger on a short weekend. This type of possibility will always weigh.

Changing gears to appliance only cars. Are the other make's plug-in small sedans profitable (versus what the Volt was)? Less capability should mean less cost to produce. Do those cars lack the generator or the level of battery cooling? Honest question here.

[jamala00]

I could very easily right now get an EV and it would suit my driving needs for 95%+ of what I drive. I just don't have any interest in one. There is just something about the sound of a V8 or the sound of my Harley when you get in start it up and go. It adds to the experience. With an EV and no sound and EVs wanting to take over driving for you.. It's like you are sitting inside a computer and it's driving you around. You might as well get a Taxi or Uber... I don't know, that's my $.02. EV's aren't being made to drive, they are being made to ride in. I love to DRIVE... Not ride...

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

And I bet it handles pretty well also

pretty close to on par with the SS - braking too.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by jamala00

I could very easily right now get an EV and it would suit my driving needs for 95%+ of what I drive. I just don't have any interest in one. There is just something about the sound of a V8 or the sound of my Harley when you get in start it up and go. It adds to the experience. With an EV and no sound and EVs wanting to take over driving for you.. It's like you are sitting inside a computer and it's driving you around. You might as well get a Taxi or Uber... I don't know, that's my $.02. EV's aren't being made to drive, they are being made to ride in. I love to DRIVE... Not ride...

My exact point about automatics

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

What's the point in these extreme examples? It's not going to dictate what a company does. It's not going to dictate what the vast majority of car buyers do.

I can make the same kind of example the other way.

When a gas powered car can go 0-60 in 2 seconds with a full tank of gas and go 500 miles before filling up and i can start it without waking the neighbors or getting pulled over in some uppity town from noise.. Then i'll consider one.

My extreme example doesn't mesh with the vast majority of use cases for electric cars ...nor would it be expected that gas powered cars have to match that to be relevant.

can you make an electric sports car that is relevant to the use cases of most people today? Definitely. That's all that's needed for the hope of the future of the camaro as a successful EV. That and a better body styling than the 6th gen ...since apparently people would rather buy anything else.

You seem to be unfamiliar with the American tradition of a road trip.

I would drive 700 miles (N CA. OR. & WA.) to get home for Christmas. When my sister graduated from UW, I did the 1500 mile round trip in a 4 day weekend. Heck, once had the flu and thought I would miss Christmas in the SF southbay. My fever broke on the 23rd, and I hit the highway from San Diego on the 24th to drive over 500 miles. I wasn't alone on the highway and traffic was doing 90 mph.

Students, Military, contract workers going home for a long weekend. Our entire culture is based around the concept of individual mobility, the personally owned vehicle (POV). You would be surprised how many drivers operate outside of the 30 mile round trip daily commute model.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

You seem to be unfamiliar with the American tradition of a road trip.

I would drive 700 miles (N CA. OR. & WA.) to get home for Christmas. When my sister graduated from UW, I did the 1500 mile round trip in a 4 day weekend. Heck, once had the flu and thought I would miss Christmas in the SF southbay. My fever broke on the 23rd, and I hit the highway from San Diego on the 24th to drive over 500 miles. I wasn't alone on the highway and traffic was doing 90 mph.

Students, Military, contract workers going home for a long weekend. Our entire culture is based around the concept of individual mobility, the personally owned vehicle (POV). You would be surprised how many drivers operate outside of the 30 mile round trip daily commute model.

Yep. Look back as to why American cars evolved the way they did. It became apparent back in the 1920s that, as more American roads were expanded and more people could afford cars, car companies needed to design engines and transmissions that could last for longer and longer drives over longer and longer distances without breaking down, needing constant maintenance, and being unreliable.

Then when the National Highway system was instituted, American car companies started designing cars to not only be reliable for long distances and high mileage but comfortable.

It's why over time you had American engines with good oil pressure and large radiators while in Europe they still hardly had any cooling system at all. They simply didn't need them - there weren't enough road or distance for people to travel for the engine to get too hot, and overall mileage was much less.

By the 1960s millions of people were taking long trips in their cars, on the road for 500-1000+ miles at a time without stopping (except to fill the gas tank, grab a bite to eat, and use the bathroom)

Overdrive, cruise control, air conditioning, radial tires, better suspensions, low effort steering, sound insulation..... all were features that were really developed at least partly with long distance, constant, non-stop driving in mind.

I college a few times drove from Toledo to Cleveland on Friday to see my folks and friends, catch my high school football game, then drive from Cleveland to Columbus to drop friends off and pick more friends up, drive to Bowling Green to drop them off, then be back in Toledo by 7:00 Saturday morning. Crash till 1, do homework till 5.

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

You seem to be unfamiliar with the American tradition of a road trip.

I would drive 700 miles (N CA. OR. & WA.) to get home for Christmas. When my sister graduated from UW, I did the 1500 mile round trip in a 4 day weekend. Heck, once had the flu and thought I would miss Christmas in the SF southbay. My fever broke on the 23rd, and I hit the highway from San Diego on the 24th to drive over 500 miles. I wasn't alone on the highway and traffic was doing 90 mph.

Students, Military, contract workers going home for a long weekend. Our entire culture is based around the concept of individual mobility, the personally owned vehicle (POV). You would be surprised how many drivers operate outside of the 30 mile round trip daily commute model.

that America is not part of the "new model"

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by c4racer

that America is not part of the "new model"

Tru dat

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by c4racer

that America is not part of the "new model"

I guess that means the "new model" is incomplete and poorly thought out. Like too many things in today's sound-bite, instant-access lifestyle.


Norm

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I guess that means the "new model" is incomplete and poorly thought out. Like too many things in today's sound-bite, instant-access lifestyle.


Norm

I work with some young people out of college and in college, one day I said "I miss Toys R US", they said "why" so we had the discussion of going and physically looking at things, touching things, etc. They were not onboard and would rather "Amazon" just bring it.

Times are changing, people are changing...I am getting old