[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by mcsoul

Does anyone know what mph the gt350 3rd to 4th shift is at? That's the key here, because you may be as likely to have to downshift at gt350 into 2nd as you are to have to upshift an SS into 4th depending on the track.

The SS goes to a higher speed in every gear.. So, I'm still wondering about this "you'll have to shift way less with a GT350" thing.

Edit: Just looked at the Hennessey video and the above may not be true, but they are very close to each other in MPH in the first 4 gears.

[mcsoul]

That's what I'm thinking too. You can probably keep an 1LE in 3rd on a slower corner where the gt350 may have to downshift to second then upshift to 3rd on the straight. Say there is one corner like that and one straight where you need to go over 110mph and shift the camaro (assuming the gt350 can keep 3rd for that entire straight). Then I would call that a wash on loss of time due shifting. With the 1LE getting the edge due to low end torque coming out of most corners where both cars are staying in 3rd.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by titanfan

The fact is, on a road course, you are going to be shifting the GT350 much less often than the SS Camaro. Those shifts will cost you time, no way around it. In addition, the GT350 only has one overdriven gear, the Camaro has two. This is one factor that contributes to the better MPG for the SS versus the GT350.

Incorrect. Below is what motor trend had to say about the gearing of the GT.

You’re shifting a lot, too, just cresting into third as you enter the corner before shifting back down to second. We like rowing our own gears as much as the next guy or gal, but rushing through the gears in the Ford is frustrating

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...rd-mustang-gt/

Also, The Voodoo revs higher but its usable power is also 1500 rpm higher. Its a turd below 4000 rpm

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Two over drives in the auto, but also has 6 power gears. M6 only has one overdrive just like the GT350s.

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Camaro features two overdrives.

Comparison of the GT350 v Camaro SS transmission ratios.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Incorrect. Below is what motor trend had to say about the gearing of the GT.

You’re shifting a lot, too, just cresting into third as you enter the corner before shifting back down to second. We like rowing our own gears as much as the next guy or gal, but rushing through the gears in the Ford is frustrating

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...rd-mustang-gt/

Also, The Voodoo revs higher but its usable power is also 1500 rpm higher. Its a turd below 4000 rpm

350 has longer gears than the GT, but it's about the same as the Camaro SS.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Camaro features two overdrives.

Comparison of the GT350 v Camaro SS transmission ratios.

Attachment 778594

I stand corrected. Must have been thinking about my old 6 speed.

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[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Goes something like this.. Hey, what's the maximum torque my engine produces? Okay, multiply that by final drive and that gear ratio and you get your net torque!!! Omg, the Coyote engine makes 400 torque whether at idle or at 5k RPM so it all makes sense!!!!

You think with that extra net torque, the GT would be able to keep up with the SS.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

I do know this, that if Ford did spend a lot of money on this engine, it has to be a huge failure.

2. Built an engine with less HP and torque than Chevy can easily make with the 6.2 LT1 or almost any other recent NA V8 engine in the GM's arsenal
3. The engine isn't small in physical size, doesn't out power many V8 engines, and still requires a gas-guzzler tax.
4. Where or how does anyone see this engine as a success?



My comments are not intended to trash the GT350, heaven only knows they need something in Ford's arsenal to counter the new Camaro. I just think all the hoopla about the advantages of the flat plane engine come only from those who haven't subjectively looked at it's advantages/disadvantages. If it's such a great racing engine, why isn't Ford using it in their new LeMans Ford GT?

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

Again, you base GG tax on the outgoing Chevy engine in 4100 lb cars when any aficionado knows the LT1, nor none of it's derivatives require the tax, not even the highest HP Z06.


So, you think it a bragging point that the Voodoo is the largest FPC engine made and it sells for less than it's other FPC Ferrari competitors. Really?..you think that's something to brag about and call a success? Right! A gas guzzler, relatively low HP engine. Try building a resto-mod car with that engine and see how much it costs. They haven't released it as a crate engine as far as I could find.

I call the Voodoo a failure if it doesn't power the Mustang appreciably faster than the latest LS3 or LS7 and then only because of lighter wheels and better tires.

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

Not only do I tip my hat to the Mustang competition, I have owned 5 of them and loved them all...I am not necessarily a Chevy fanboy...I just love cars.

I am quite certain the "base" engine in the new Camaro is only the beginning of a long line of great factory high performance cars that more often than not outperform their Ford counterparts. I give credit to Ford for going way out on the limb to build the Voodoo, but it has to be disheartening to spend all that money on that engine for the relatively poor performance output. Of course that's my opinion.

I guess HP is one measure of the value of a car, but I honestly see that Chevrolet has done wonderfully well in every automotive arena using the engines they have built and raced. Seems to me, they have developed an excellent all-around sporty car that doesn't need the highest HP to win. I'm sure you would be willing to give a tip of the hat to that fact...lol. All the Ford guys point to the fact that the small displacement Coyote and Voodoo put out a lot of HP for their size and sometimes use that as an excuse for it's poor performance...ok, but it usually takes a back seat to Chevy's bigger engines. Ford could have built any size engine they wanted.

You say you tip your cap to them, but your previous posts, namely the ones I bolded you pretty much act as if this is one of the worst engines ever built. Not exactly tipping your cap lol. I am not trying to say you need to say its fantastic but you seem to think its a total piece of junk lol.

I think what GM has done with the Camaro is incredible. The SS is damn fast, it is almost scary to think what the high performance variants will be capable off.

Also you say HP is one way to value an engine but you were the one who kept mentioning the Voodoos low HP. You were the one who brought it up. You dogged the voodoo for low HP, I asked you to name an engine that makes more HP you ignored. You said the LT1 nor any of its derivatives get the gas guzzler tax. The LT4 in the CTS-V does. You also ignored that.

Originally Posted by IOMike

It's not the 526 that's low, it's the 429 ft/lbs of torque that's low. They are dynoing around 455/375. The "not so special" LT1 does 410/410. Perhaps the Ford just has more drive train loss, I don't know

This is why the GT350 is not any faster in the 1/4 mile. The 5.2 FPC only looks amazing in comparison to the 5.0. Yes, it revs to like 8000rpm. I fail to see why that is better than having a lot of usable low end torque though.

Paris is the one who kept saying the Voodoo is a low HP engine not me.

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Goes something like this.. Hey, what's the maximum torque my engine produces? Okay, multiply that by final drive and that gear ratio and you get your net torque!!! Omg, the Coyote engine makes 400 torque whether at idle or at 5k RPM so it all makes sense!!!!

I saw those threads and graphs over there. They're trying really hard to prove (with data, not with 1/4 mile times) that the Mustang is just as fast as the SS.

I don't care what their graph shows in manipulating gear ratios, the fact remains that the SS is on average .6 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile. That's a lot.

[mcsoul]

[khell86]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

You think with that extra net torque, the GT would be able to keep up with the SS.

The GT only has more net torque through 50 MPH, after that its pretty even until about 70 and then the SS takes it. It's one of the reasons the GT is so hard to launch with the 3:73 gears.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by IOMike

I saw those threads and graphs over there. They're trying really hard to prove (with data, not with 1/4 mile times) that the Mustang is just as fast as the SS.

I don't care what their graph shows in manipulating gear ratios, the fact remains that the SS is on average .6 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile. That's a lot.

I don't get why that is so hard to understand lol. The SS with the A8 is a beast in the 1/4

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by khell86

The GT only has more net torque through 50 MPH, after that its pretty even until about 70 and then the SS takes it. It's one of the reasons the GT is so hard to launch with the 3:73 gears.

I've never seen a GT have more torque than an SS at that point on a dyno sheet...not to mention the ratings are 400 to 455.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

I've never seen a GT have more torque than an SS at that point on a dyno sheet...not to mention the ratings are 400 to 455.

You're forgetting that this is Mustang fanboy math at play..