[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by germanicus

I ultimately ended up with a PP GT, which cost me under 33k out the door. The alternative (for what I was willing to spend - cash) would have been a 1ss, and I didn't find the slight performance advantage (which would only really be felt on track days or autocross events) sufficient to overcome my preference in styling/visibility and the higher price (out the door a 1ss was over 36k).

Just my 2 cents.

I fell head over heels for the Camaro when I bought my Gen5 in 2012. But its a V6 and I'm wanting to move up to a V8 and buy new. The current pricing for the 1SS is just too much and I'm starting to look at GTs.

Al Oppenhieser said the Camaro is selling on average for for $3,700 more than Mustangs. Maybe that makes sense for GM but it doesn't for me. As much as I love the Camaro I just can't justify paying that much more for one right now.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

I agree, not sure why the dealers are also loading V6's for over 36k! That's nuts!!!

The EB/V6 are selling great for the Stang and the price of the 2.0T/V6 is just too high.

If I was GM, I would leave the cost of the SS (worth every damn penny lol) but DEF. lower the price of the 2.0T/V6.. or add a lot of incentives for the base and mid tier trims.

Just to add, perhaps not including base LS models with this 6thgen line-up is lowering sales numbers....

But if I recall correctly the top selling 5thGen cars were by far and away fully-loaded V-6s....

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

I fell head over heels for the Camaro when I bought my Gen5 in 2012. But its a V6 and I'm wanting to move up to a V8 and buy new. The current pricing for the 1SS is just too much and I'm starting to look at GTs.

Al Oppenhieser said the Camaro is selling on average for for $3,700 more than Mustangs. Maybe that makes sense for GM but it doesn't for me. As much as I love the Camaro I just can't justify paying that much more for one right now.

I hear you regarding the price but ask yourself this. If you truly like the Camaro more than the Mustang then that additional $3700 is only around $60 more per month on a 5 year loan, or $15 per week. Most people who are passionate about a particular car could find $15 per week if it meant they can get the car they really wanted. It may mean one less dinner out per month, or a few less trips to Starbucks if you know what I mean. Just a thought...

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I hear you regarding the price but ask yourself this. If you truly like the Camaro more than the Mustang then that additional $3700 is only around $60 more per month on a 5 year loan, or $15 per week. Most people who are passionate about a particular car could find $15 per week if it meant they can get the car they really wanted. It may mean one less dinner out per month, or a few less trips to Starbucks if you know what I mean. Just a thought...

True, but thats not how people shop. They either buy something because they think it's cool (marketing) or because it's cheaper.

[bharabs]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I hear you regarding the price but ask yourself this. If you truly like the Camaro more than the Mustang then that additional $3700 is only around $60 more per month on a 5 year loan, or $15 per week. Most people who are passionate about a particular car could find $15 per week if it meant they can get the car they really wanted. It may mean one less dinner out per month, or a few less trips to Starbucks if you know what I mean. Just a thought...

Depends. But the sooner we agree pricing is the issue resulting in sales, the better it is for all of us. You can always build a better car with more features that cost more. But here the fight is in the Pony car segment, which means a cheap, affordable sport car. People saying the camaro is moving into a different segment are only doing so based on the SS vs M4 comparison. If that was the case, they would not have introduced the 4 banger with the 6th gen.

My opinion is that the car is that the standard features should be kept to a minimum so that the base price is competitive. You may add these features as per your needs and affordability. Instead of saying "you are getting a lot more for your money", let me chose where I want to spend my money.

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I hear you regarding the price but ask yourself this. If you truly like the Camaro more than the Mustang then that additional $3700 is only around $60 more per month on a 5 year loan, or $15 per week. Most people who are passionate about a particular car could find $15 per week if it meant they can get the car they really wanted. It may mean one less dinner out per month, or a few less trips to Starbucks if you know what I mean. Just a thought...

If GM could get away with the kind of robbery Starbucks practices we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I hear you regarding the price but ask yourself this. If you truly like the Camaro more than the Mustang then that additional $3700 is only around $60 more per month on a 5 year loan, or $15 per week. Most people who are passionate about a particular car could find $15 per week if it meant they can get the car they really wanted. It may mean one less dinner out per month, or a few less trips to Starbucks if you know what I mean. Just a thought...

Exactly. I ordered a GT350 @ MSRP because I love the engine, exhaust sound, 8250 RPM redline, the FANTASTIC looks, and so much more including the fact I can fit my kids in back WITH LEGROOM.

Chevy really messed up cuz I seriously considered Camaro SS. But my God, 50K? 0 rear legroom? Clausterphobic cabin? Looks the same as the previous gen (actually the prev gen looks BETTER - before they screwed up the taillights in 2014).

Why pay more for less is what people are asking with the Camaro.
The Mustang is just a better car for the money.

Better luck next gen, if there is one.

[hangover]

The Mustang looks like an Aston Martin.
The Camaro looks like... a scrunched up 5th gen CAMARO.

Case closed.

[hangover]

Originally Posted by Raven87

People who like to compare the 6th Gen to the BMW or similar are smoking crack if they think by having a better performance number or a magazine endorsement makes the (insert car of choice here) a 'better' car.

If 'better' only means quicker, better handling, and superior performance data, the 6G Camaro should be outselling the Challenger and Mustang by a long shot. It is not.

If 'better' means having higher quality parts - beefier transmission, bad ass small block with enormous power upgrade potential, an interior that is comparable to GM's halo car, on a lighter, more nimble chassis, etc - the 6G Camaro would be outselling the Challenger and Mustang without comparison. It is not.

If 'better' means more desire due to its looks and subjective views then - you guessed it - the 6G Camaro would be outselling the Challenger and Mustang six ways to Sunday. It is not.

So riddle me this - if the new Camaro is 'better' in every respect to its competitors BUT the competitors - with one on a two year old redesign and the other so long in the tooth it is drawing Social Security - are BOTH outselling the Camaro, why is that? Clearly the 6G Camaro IS better performance wise. Certainly, the 6G Camaro is better because of the sum of its high quality parts. And to most - at least on this forum - the looks of the 6G are very pleasing and attractive.

So if it is a better car in all respects - and it is - why isn't it selling?

Simply put, it is because those three standards of being 'better' that we see tossed all around here - better performance, better parts and makeup, and subjective things like better looks - do NOT matter as much to the buyer as something else. So, as we've seen, more buyers go and buy a Mustang or a Challenger after driving off the Chevy lot - if they were even there to start with.

What is that 'something else'? You already know the answer. Because better performance data, better and more expensive parts, and more attractive looks will almost always lose to budget concerns for the market segment these cars are aimed at. THAT IS WHY MORE V6 CARS ARE SOLD THAN V8s. Cost, pure and simple. Cost of purchase, cost to own and maintain, and cost to insure.

Cost.

If the average buyer - not performance nuts like us on this forum - is happy with the seat of the pants feel of a Scat Pack or 5.0 when he floors it from the stop light, or if he or she likes the feel of taking an decreasing radius exit ramp at a little higher speed to feel .75G in that Challenger or Mustang, that same buyer is not going to pay more for something that does nothing more for him or her. In THEIR world, the Scat Pack or 5.0 will do all they need and want. For less money. At the end of the day, that leaves more money for life's necessities in their checkbook.

And the subjective parts such as looks, or nicer seats? Those are only the icing on the cake for them that they can do without. They still get cake.

And if GM is thinking that by building a better, more expensive Camaro they can get the BMW and Audi buyers to abandon camp and join ranks with the Bowtie Crowd, that isn't working either. Sure, the SS will smoke the M4 or S5. But the SS is and forever always will be a Camaro.

The M4? Always a BMW and to those for whom this matters, they - as a rule - will always buy the less performing, more expensive to maintain, and not as well built BMW over the Camaro. The S5 group? They want the four rings on their grille more so than a quicker 0-60 time. They want to be seen in their black German machine even if they are getting passed by the SS. At least they were 'in an Audi'. And so it goes.

It is what it is.

Kudos to the best post here.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by hangover

Exactly. I ordered a GT350 @ MSRP because I love the engine, exhaust sound, 8250 RPM redline, the FANTASTIC looks, and so much more including the fact I can fit my kids in back WITH LEGROOM.

Chevy really messed up cuz I seriously considered Camaro SS. But my God, 50K? 0 rear legroom? Clausterphobic cabin? Looks the same as the previous gen (actually the prev gen looks BETTER - before they screwed up the taillights in 2014).

Why pay more for less is what people are asking with the Camaro.
The Mustang is just a better car for the money.

Better luck next gen, if there is one.

Thank you for sharing your take!

Of course a reasonably equipped 2SS is probably $46 or $47k, and unless you're 4'6" the back seat of both cars are incredibly impractical for any distance.

I personally hated the looks of the 5th Gen car and thought 'finally they trimmed all the fat and absurdity out of that car' when I first saw the 6th gen.

So I guess what we've just learned is that different people with different needs and requirements will have different opinions on cars.

I'm really glad you went and got your GT350 if it makes you happy. That is a special motor and a very unique car. Not sure why you're comparing a $55k+ car [base price] to a $37k car [base price]. The GT350 will certainly outperform a 1SS, but a 1SS will outperform a GT PP for similar pricing. Seems like you were comparing apples to applesauce?

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by hangover

The Mustang looks like an Aston Martin.
The Camaro looks like... a scrunched up 5th gen CAMARO.

Case closed.

So you drive a wannabe Astin...GOOD JOB!

[SpookShow'84]

The Mustang looks like a Fusion coupe, although I do like the fusion.

GM is trying to sell the car at champagne prices when most of the traditional buyers are beer budgeted. It is better but isn't the car for everyone. They're filling a gap where things used to be, before the Vette goes mid engine and $100k+ in price probably. The V6 is going to be the new Camaro, the SS is going to be the new Vette. The sales results are the growing pains.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

If GM could get away with the kind of robbery Starbucks practices we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Your are right about that. I tell my wife, please just order normal coffee.

[atvBob]

Originally Posted by SpookShow'84

The Mustang looks like a Fusion coupe, although I do like the fusion.

My current and previous vehicles were Mustangs ('12 and '14 Brembo GTs). I've had 6 (total) Mustangs in my lifetime. I've bought 10 (yes, 10) new Ford vehicles in the past 11 years, largely because I get AZ Plan pricing.

Suffice it to say, the reason I've got the one (and currently only) allotment for a '17 ZL1 from my local dealership is because of what Ford did with the '15+ Mustang. I absolutely hate it.