[unavailablezl1]

A "track" is any organized legal, "non street", racing in an shape or form using several substances: concrete, asphalt, dirt or sand.

When people are asked about them building an engine and car up, they are always asked, "are you taking it to the track?". And in most cases is the 1/4 mile, or track.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

A "track" is any organized legal, "non street", racing in an shape or form using several substances: concrete, asphalt, dirt or sand.

When people are asked about them building an engine and car up, they are always asked, "are you taking it to the track?". And in most cases is the 1/4 mile, or track.

While I would have to agree with you on that, the topic the others were discussing was specifically road courses

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

While I would have to agree with you on that, the topic the others were discussing was specifically road courses

Sure I agree on that, but I responded as to where you can take a ZL1 to 180mph on a track. And I responded with a valid answer.... The Texas Mile.

[BlaqWhole]

First off, when the original conversation occurred, I believe the term I used was "private road course". Certain topics are not allowed so I do not discuss those things or post videos especially if it is illegal.

Second, while discussing this video of TH and these three cars is good because it shows how they compare stock. I think TH despite the tire thing did a great job of showing that the ZL1 is able to beat the GT500 in more areas than it loses. When timed the ZL1 will either match or beat the GT500. When judging by distance the ZL1 can reach a quarter mile distance quicker. Someone in the past said that in the real world the GT500 will blow past the ZL1 and we saw that isn't the case. And that was on a track. Then on a road surface the ZL1 again beat the GT500 going by a quarter mile distance. The only place the GT500 has managed to take a win consistently is in roll racing. And even then it doesn't look like it is straight up walking away. And around a track the ZL1 has beaten the GT500.

These are all facts. In the past someone said I was out of my mind if I thought the ZL1 could beat a GT500 in a straight line. Yet that is what has been happening except for on rolls. Someone also said there was no way the ZL1 would beat the GT500 in the quarter mile. Yet it has happened. I offer reasons as to why and people jump down my throat. I mention certain things which could be why the GT500 is inconsistent yet people jump down my throat. I offered up a huge summary of why the ZL1 is built better and no that can't be it. Yet we continue to see the GT500 is losing. When it does win it is a struggle unless it is against a completely underpowered car like the C8 which is down by 265 HP and even then it is only on tracks that have very long straights.

So what I'm getting at is that instead of arguing some of you track wizards should have some solid explanation why the GT500 is not soundly beating the ZL1 and C8. Because I give up trying to explain it. There has to be a logical reason why a 760 HP GT500 is struggling against a 650 HP ZL1.

[TheRealJA105]

TRACTION

[BlaqWhole]

Not only against the ZL1 C8 has it been losing but also against even more powerful and higher end cars like the GT3 and Ferrari (I believe it was a Ferrari). The GT3 beat it in the first lap by 1-2 tenths. In the second lap the GT500 lost a full second while the GT3 stayed consistent. Yet people argued with me when I said the GT500 was very inconsistent. Same track, same day, and the GT500 lost a full second while the other car did not.

So if it is not anything related to the car itself then could the inconsistency be due to physical/driver related issues? Could it be that pushing a vehicle at that weight at those speeds is very physically draining? Maybe the operators are not aware of it? Because even in the quarter mile all we ever see out of people who track it for an entire day is usually ONE run in the 10s and either no mention of the other runs or they are well in the 11s. I know with my HC that it is very heavy to wheel around. The size and weight of it is definitely felt when going from it to my ZL1 and vice versa. So could operating the 500 just be physically draining and pushing it thru one lap, while it might be fun as hell, is just too much to keep doing?

Also. Why are the tires fading off soo fast? Even with an object moving, a heavier mass will put more pressure on the ground. The testers of this car have said that you do not feel the weight. But those forces are not just disappearing. Maybe you can't feel it but it is still there. Like insensible water loss. That weight is being distributed thru the chassis, suspension components, brakes, tires, etc. Pressure increases heat. And when objects get above an optimal temp they start to have issues. Could this be the case with the GT500?

Now could it be that perhaps there is a weight threshold where a car will start to experience issues with consistent performance should it tip the scales too much? Now listen up. GM went thru some very extreme lengths to cut the weight and size on the ZL1 as much as possible. They then cut the ZLE even more and added a very rough suspension. Then they through an unheard of amount of coolers at it. Could it be that when GM developed the 6th Gen they realized that in order to make it perform better they had to not only shave that sheer weight and size off but also provide an extra amount of cooling? Is it possible that Ford was not able to do that? Because when you think about it, the PP2, without the extra cooling, faded off horribly while the SLE did not. We saw the same thing happen with the 500 while the GT3 did not. So maybe Ford is not adding proper cooling and maybe the engine is too powerful and pushing that car soo fast that the suspension, brakes, and other components cannot keep up.

Or maybe I'm just imagining things and the GT500 is not having these issues and I'm just suggesting that other cars are breaking the laws of physics. What if GM actually DID find a way to break the laws of physics?? (GASP)

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

TRACTION

Or maybe, Tracktion

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

TRACTION

Even with those amazing tires??

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Also. Why are the tires fading off soo fast? Even with an object moving, a heavier mass will put more pressure on the ground. The testers of this car have said that you do not feel the weight. But those forces are not just disappearing. Maybe you can't feel it but it is still there. Like insensible water loss. That weight is being distributed thru the chassis, suspension components, brakes, tires, etc. Pressure increases heat. And when objects get above an optimal temp they start to have issues. Could this be the case with the GT500?

Why do the testers say the CFTP doesn't feel heavy has got to be the carbon fiber wheels and the way the steering is programmed I would guess...but I am just throwing a dart at the board on that one. Or maybe they finally got the magneride dialed in and that translates better

From comments by RP, and by the couple of guys in here that track frequently it seems to be that the Cup 2 are good for a hero lap or two before their performance starts to slip. So basically to me, sounds like its a super sticky tire but wears really fast.

as to why cars like the C8 can match/beat it in acceleration? Traction, ME layout and weight. The C8 may be down a ton of HP and TQ, but it also weighs 600 pounds less.

And as far as against like the ZL1/ZLE traction. There is eventually a spot where on an unprepped surface it's just to much power on a street tire.

The C7 ZR1 is one of the few cars with this kind of power in FE layout that can put it down and IIRC every review mentioned the launch control in that car is awesome. maybe Ford and Dodge just aren't as good at tuning launch control

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Or maybe, Tracktion

I get it... LOL.

You can add weight to this as well. For serious track work, GT500 CFTP will need a better tire than PS2's. Ford put a "hero lap" tire on a sub 4300Lbs track-focused car? I'd ask what were they thinking but we know the answer. For the once or twice a year track day warrior the PS2's are probably good enough. These folks will never seriously approach the limits of the car. For those of us that are advanced/Solo drivers and run 20 plus min sessions, these tires are just not able to cope with the speed from 760HP and the weight. So for ~99% of GT500 buyers, these are an adequate tire.

I can already see the look on the poor track day instructors face now. Dude rolls up in his GT500 in the Novice group... I'm calling my wife and family just in case I don't make it home!

[oldman]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

Road America.

Big Bend also:
https://www.bborr.com/

[BlaqWhole]

What tires came on the GT3?

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

What tires came on the GT3?

Cup2

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Why do the testers say the CFTP doesn't feel heavy has got to be the carbon fiber wheels and the way the steering is programmed I would guess...but I am just throwing a dart at the board on that one. Or maybe they finally got the magneride dialed in and that translates better

From comments by RP, and by the couple of guys in here that track frequently it seems to be that the Cup 2 are good for a hero lap or two before their performance starts to slip. So basically to me, sounds like its a super sticky tire but wears really fast.

as to why cars like the C8 can match/beat it in acceleration? Traction, ME layout and weight. The C8 may be down a ton of HP and TQ, but it also weighs 600 pounds less.

And as far as against like the ZL1/ZLE traction. There is eventually a spot where on an unprepped surface it's just to much power on a street tire.

The C7 ZR1 is one of the few cars with this kind of power in FE layout that can put it down and IIRC every review mentioned the launch control in that car is awesome. maybe Ford and Dodge just aren't as good at tuning launch control

The launch control in the zr1 is awesome? I have never head anyone claim as much, especially compared to high end cars with hood launch systems.

The zr1s is probably no better than the zl1s and gt500s, but it does have more weight over the rear wheels.