[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by DeuceCam

Glad it helped in your case.
The 1-2 shift on mine also operates normal/smooth under heavy load.
In OEM config, shifting from 1-2 feels awkward IMO with where everything is located in the cabin, but maybe it's because I have my seat down as low as it can go (prob just me).
Generally speaking, my car doesn't like shifting through gears when off.
Def interested to hear if the Tremec fluid (or other) is an improvement - I've read mixed things on this, but I have noticed subtle differences using different oils in other models..

I know this doesn’t make any sense but pressing on the clutch helps me get into gears when the car is off. Like if you kept your foot down on the clutch and tried going through all the gears, lift it again and press on the clutch again and it should work.

After typing that I think it does make sense why our cars won’t go into all the gears when off. I think it depends on how every thing was “lined up” when we turn our cars on. While I can’t say I’ve ever experienced this in smaller engine manuals I attribute this phenomenon to our cars having a more heavy duty trans/clutch/flywheel.

I understand how y’all feel having the issues you’re mentioning. I too had a Mustang GT where I kept having very similar issues. Here’s all I did to help alleviate it:

1) trans rebuild + clutch + slave(still the same issues, clutch and slave weren’t even old when replaced)
2) new/different fluid (this helped a ton but still had the issues)
3) new shifter bushings (slight improvement but still not working)
4) new clutch master cylinder and stainless steal clutch fluid line (not perfect but got it to be mostly fine/passable)

After doing all that it never shifted as I felt it should but stopped grinding for the most part. I think because I used a cheap clutch it kept it from being perfect. The trans was rebuilt by one of the top 2 builders in the country. When he took it apart he said it was fine and look elsewhere for your problem which is why I replaced the clutch and slave (they were replaced a year prior so I wasn’t planning on replacing them during the rebuild).

So having gone through what y’all are going through it leads me to believe you have clutching disengagement issues. Definitely start with cheaper things first as that was my mistake. I’d go in those order

1) replace trans fluid with oem
2) replace clutch fluid with new brake fluid (not sure if it’s easy to bleed the clutch or not
3) try the shifter replacement but imo the oem unit should work fine but yours could be worn out.
4) replace clutch master cylinder

If none of those work then you have to start thinking about more expensive things like clutch/flywheel replacement or trans rebuild

[DeuceCam]

^Thanks for chiming in on this. What you're saying about clutch engagement makes sense. I have an excellent feeling clutch pedal, so I'm thinking the hydraulics are ok, but who knows. Luckily my car drives fine and trans doesn't grind, so I'm not too worried about it, just curious.

To clarify, my camaro doesn't like shifting through gears when off, with the clutch pressed all the way in. If I park it in gear, it will engage the same gear fine if I shift back to neutral first. Sometimes it will engage other gear(s) ok, but not usually (shifter will only go halfway into gear); multiple attempts at the same gear can help but not always. It's odd.

I've had other manual cars act stubborn when shifting with car off (at times, not always), but never to the extent as my Camaro.

[cadyshac]

Well I just ordered the actual Tremec fluid and will update after I get it changed out.
What is most aggravating to me is 90% of the time it shifts fine but then out of the blue will act up occasionally and always only 1st or 2nd with 2nd being the main culprit. My car shifts fine thru the gears when it's off or just idling. I still think my shifter may be a big contributor to the inconsistency thing. Oh well, fluid first and then go form there.

[DeuceCam]

I had a feeling it wasn't normal. (One should be able to shift gears smoothly with the engine off and clutch depressed.)

Weird thing is mine shifts (mostly) normal when driving or while parked with the engine on; although, the shifting experience is notchy at times (mostly 1st & 2nd gear).

[cadyshac]

I put the Tremec fluid in 3 days ago and it didn't improve anything. I can't say it made things worse but it definitely didn't make anything better. If I run thru the shift pattern a couple of times in the morning when I first start the car that does seem to help. I am not sure having the rev match on makes much of a difference. Oh well, maybe try another brand fluid in a couple of months or so. I have noticed that my trans fluid temp rarely gets above 110-115 degrees even after driving 30 miles but this is almost all on the highway with not that much shifting of gears.

[DeuceCam]

Bummer.

I've noticed smoother shifting above 2500 rpm after the trans is warmed up. (Unfortunately, this won't help for 1st gear.) One still needs to use finesse. Previously, I was shifting around 2k rpm when just putting around.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Unfortunately friend, I have bad news for you. I also have an 18 2ss 1LE and experienced a notchy second gear that eventually led to a grind, but my primary problem was a significant grind in third gear.

Unfortunately, that is a 100% sign of your synchronizers dying. And after speaking with Tremec, there is a known problem beyond the typical notchy shifting you and every other tr-6060 owner (it's just the design and not necessarily a flaw)experience in cooler weather. I am disappointed that GM and Tremec are not willing to warranty this issue, but the synchronizer specifically with second gear cannot withstand the requirements of the TR. 6060. In fact, they don't even make the same synchronizer anymore. You can only purchase the upgraded version.

I spoke with Tremec last summer and chose to go to one of their repair facilities. There aren't very many certified repair facilities that Tremec lists on their website. However, the ones that are listed are elite and extremely competent and qualified. Certified repair facilities by Tremec know that transmission better than anyone. I'm not disregarding other transmission repair companpies or ones that offer improvements like RPM for example. I'm just sharing with you what you can expect from a certified shop recommended by Tremec.

I have all new synchronizers with a reinforced carbon second gear. Also, once your synchronizers start to go, unfortunately the gears do begin to take on premature excessive wear. Out of abundance of caution and some wear I also replaced third gear.

All new synchronizers and one gear cost me $5,000. That was with removal and replacement being done by the facility. I chose to go to D&a
D performance which is located near lingenfelter in Michigan. It also happens to be just down the road from Tremec themselves.

I spent many months doing research and learning the ins and outs of the tr-6060. You are more than welcome to change out the fluid and I can tell you that if you choose to go with an MTF because of the difference in viscosity, you will notice the grind more as well as an even notchier second. If you choose to go with an ATF, you will still experience a dampened grinding, but it will be present. The notchiness in second will also be less noticeable and this just boils down to pure viscosity.

Tremec recommends their secret sauce which does happen to be an MtF. GM has now specified that an MTF is what is called for in our vehicles. You can go down the rabbit hole and review the exhaustive post of Royal purple versus synchromax versus ACDelco versus Tremec. I tried the AC Delco OEM fluid as well as royal purple and the Tremec MTF. Unfortunately, none of those are going to fix a mechanical problem. However, it is good maintenance to swap out the fluid. Depending on your driving style and or track 30,000 mi is not unreasonable.

The pictures listed in this post are of a toasted third gear synchronizer as well as second gear beginning to fail.

I would recommend you call the Novi headquarters for Tremec. Mike is a good reference and he is the manager if I recall. You can also speak with Joel who is an outstanding individual. In all actuality any one of the guys you talk to on the phone are going to be pretty fantastic. I got to know them quite well on the hot rod Power Tour last summer.


For what it's worth, there is only one short throw shifter for the 6th gen Camaro outside of the OEM. I too chose to go with the Hurst and had that installed at the same time as the repair. I can't say enough good things about it. However, it does require more effort in shifting but the precision and lack of slop is quite nice. Much tighter shift pattern . It won't fix any problem with a grind but it will give you plenty of smiles.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by Ventmaster

Over time I've tried multiple aftermarket synthetic gear oils in the Camaro's manual trans and it just seems temperature dependent no matter which is in it. Until the trans is a bit warmed up and in order to minimize trauma to the 2nd gear synchro, I just do a first to third gear shift. If you're not in a rush, it's no problem for these 6.2L motors. You won't "bog " the engine, IMHO.

Same.

I do the 1-3-5 shifts when cold and I’m just putting around warming it up.

[DeuceCam]

Val Walkinshaw, I've seen your posts on the TR6060 (and some others who had issues). What you said does not surprise me.

I'm lucky that my trans doesn't "grind." (It is notchy.) My car is CPO and the powertrain warranty is good until the end of 2027, so I'm not too worried about a potential failure at the moment.

Originally Posted by Val Walkinshaw

GM has now specified that an MTF is what is called for in our vehicles.

Where did you hear that GM is now specifying MTF (instead of AC Delco ATF) for the TR6060? Is there a specific MTF that they recommend (brand, part #, etc.)?

[cadyshac]

Thanks for all the info.
My only issue is 2nd gear "grind" when cold or 1st shift of the day. No other gears grind and if I go 1st to 3rd the first shift or two then the problem is avoided.
I too would like to know more about GM changing the fluid spec to MTF.
I experienced this same issue in a 5th gen 2SS M6 TR6060 but I put Redline D4 in that one and it made a big difference.
So far in my 6th gen I've tried Royal Purple and Tremec HP-MTF. The Tremec fluid is not better than the RP was but it's not any worse either.
I may switch to another fluid again in a couple of months, not sure yet.

[DeuceCam]

^Did you use Royal Purple Syncromax, or one of their weighted gear oils (e.g. 75W-90)?

[cadyshac]

Originally Posted by DeuceCam

^Did you use Royal Purple Syncromax, or one of their weighted gear oils (e.g. 75W-90)?

I used Synchromax.

[Ventmaster]

I got the same results from every synthetic MTF I've tried and no bueno. I haven't used RP Synchromax because of the low viscosity. The last manual I drove that did use ATF ('86 Z/28- times were hard!) made a grand total of 185hp. I don't see how trans oil with a 10 viscosity can properly handle 455.
Anxiously waiting to see any opinion from DeuceCam or Val W. on this matter.
Is that safe?