[TransamGTA350]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Straight off the dealership lot they run very similar lap times but you have to remember a c8 z51 has much worse tires on it. I’d bet if you put on super car 3’s on the c8 z51 it’d be a good 2 seconds faster than the ss 1le. There actually isn’t a huge improvement between a10 and m6 for roadcourse work.

The C8 Z51 is quite a bit faster on a road course than the SS1LE, even with the C8's Michelin PS4S vs. the 1LE's Goodyear SC3. Put the SC3 on the C8 and the gap will widen even more.

Car and Driver Lightning Lap times @ VIR
2017 Camaro SS1LE 2:54.8
2020 Corvette Z51 2:49.0

6 seconds difference on an almost 3 minute course is a lot when evaluating the capabilities of a particular car with equal drivers. However, on your typical HPDE day, there's significantly more than 6 seconds in variation in lap times due to driver skill and experience. A well-driven SS1LE will pass a lot of C8's if the drivers of those C8's are not as skilled.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by TransamGTA350

The C8 Z51 is quite a bit faster on a road course than the SS1LE, even with the C8's Michelin PS4S vs. the 1LE's Goodyear SC3. Put the SC3 on the C8 and the gap will widen even more.

Car and Driver Lightning Lap times @ VIR
2017 Camaro SS1LE 2:54.8
2020 Corvette Z51 2:49.0

6 seconds difference on an almost 3 minute course is a lot when evaluating the capabilities of a particular car with equal drivers. However, on your typical HPDE day, there's significantly more than 6 seconds in variation in lap times due to driver skill and experience. A well-driven SS1LE will pass a lot of C8's if the drivers of those C8's are not as skilled.

2 things:

1) it depends on the track. On a high horsepower track like VIR grand course the higher horsepower car will do better than the lower horsepower car. Below is an example of the ss 1le beating the c8 using the same driver I believe (not say day though so take it however you want it). There are some other examples as well. I do think the C8 is quite a bit faster for sure when tires are equal, but when the tires are oem their times are within spitting distance of each other.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=586594

2) it is common knowledge on these boards that whoever drove the SS 1le for lightning lap 7 years ago was garbage. His time is slower than a lot of cars that the ss 1le has been faster than consistently on other tracks. A user on here (believe he commented on this thread) has beaten the lightning lap time.

Also just a heads up about lightning lap in general but they do NOT use the same driver for each car on their day of testing which is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me. That right there is why their times have to be taken with a grain of salt.

[TransamGTA350]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

2 things:

1) it depends on the track. On a high horsepower track like VIR grand course the higher horsepower car will do better than the lower horsepower car. Below is an example of the ss 1le beating the c8 using the same driver I believe (not say day though so take it however you want it). There are some other examples as well. I do think the C8 is quite a bit faster for sure when tires are equal, but when the tires are oem their times are within spitting distance of each other.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=586594

2) it is common knowledge on these boards that whoever drove the SS 1le for lightning lap 7 years ago was garbage. His time is slower than a lot of cars that the ss 1le has been faster than consistently on other tracks. A user on here (believe he commented on this thread) has beaten the lightning lap time.

Also just a heads up about lightning lap in general but they do NOT use the same driver for each car on their day of testing which is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me. That right there is why their times have to be taken with a grain of salt.

I get what you're saying and I do agree that Lightning Lap has some variation in its published numbers (different days, different drivers, etc.) but it's still a great resource. The SS1LE time from the other thread you referenced was 3 seconds quicker than the C&D published time, so that gets it within 3 seconds of the Z51 time (assuming the Z51 time is good).

The tires on the Z51 are certainly holding it back, probably at least by 2 seconds on smaller tracks, perhaps even more at VIR.

I know it sounds like I'm arguing with you, but I'm generally in agreement with you. The SS1LE is a phenomenal track car that punches above it's weight and shows up a lot of more expensive cars. The C8Z51 is still a bit better, even being handicapped with it's stock tires. GM should have put SC3's on it.

I agree that the two cars are close enough that the difference in driver, especially at an intermediate level will make a bigger difference than the car. I track my SS1LE and I consistently get point by's from C8Z51's.

For similar reasons you said, my next track car will not be a C8Z51. It's not better enough than the SS1LE. I'll hang on to the 1LE until I'm ready for a C8Z06 and skip the Z51.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by TransamGTA350

I get what you're saying and I do agree that Lightning Lap has some variation in its published numbers (different days, different drivers, etc.) but it's still a great resource. The SS1LE time from the other thread you referenced was 3 seconds quicker than the C&D published time, so that gets it within 3 seconds of the Z51 time (assuming the Z51 time is good).

The tires on the Z51 are certainly holding it back, probably at least by 2 seconds on smaller tracks, perhaps even more at VIR.

I know it sounds like I'm arguing with you, but I'm generally in agreement with you. The SS1LE is a phenomenal track car that punches above it's weight and shows up a lot of more expensive cars. The C8Z51 is still a bit better, even being handicapped with it's stock tires. GM should have put SC3's on it.

I agree that the two cars are close enough that the difference in driver, especially at an intermediate level will make a bigger difference than the car. I track my SS1LE and I consistently get point by's from C8Z51's.

For similar reasons you said, my next track car will not be a C8Z51. It's not better enough than the SS1LE. I'll hang on to the 1LE until I'm ready for a C8Z06 and skip the Z51.

Got it. I admit I use lightning lap as a guide as well even though I am aware of the driver thing. I’ll also admit I’m just a little salty at the poor SS 1le time they posted because I felt there was a lot of time left on the table. Same with their 2017 zl1 time. They broke a wheel which ended their zl1 track time early.

Funny you mentioned your next track car. I noticed you have the same year 1le as I do. If you’re like me then you are planning on tracking it until at least the warranty is up. Even though that is 4 years away I too think about what I will be getting next. C8 is on my list. I think it’s an amazing car out of the box with just an easy tire upgrade. That being said intermediate and advanced drivers are finding they need to upgrade the brakes (calipers not just pads) as they are getting to the z51’s braking limitations. Personally I prefer something I can just track straight out of the box (like the ss 1le) with nothing besides fluid, pad and tire upgrades. I’m nowhere near needing to upgrade pads and tires yet but 4 years from now I may have had enough track time to where if I get a z51 I may need to do the brake upgrade right away.

Still considering one because I really like the LT2 and I do think the platform is an upgrade overall. Also considering an M2, Supra (those 2 may be downgrades though) and a dark horse. If the dark horse was lighter it would be at the top of my list but consumables will be a lot on it. Who knows though I’d like to think my salary will be a bit higher to support darkhorse consumables as well haha.

[TransamGTA350]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Got it. I admit I use lightning lap as a guide as well even though I am aware of the driver thing. I’ll also admit I’m just a little salty at the poor SS 1le time they posted because I felt there was a lot of time left on the table. Same with their 2017 zl1 time. They broke a wheel which ended their zl1 track time early.

Funny you mentioned your next track car. I noticed you have the same year 1le as I do. If you’re like me then you are planning on tracking it until at least the warranty is up. Even though that is 4 years away I too think about what I will be getting next. C8 is on my list. I think it’s an amazing car out of the box with just an easy tire upgrade. That being said intermediate and advanced drivers are finding they need to upgrade the brakes (calipers not just pads) as they are getting to the z51’s braking limitations. Personally I prefer something I can just track straight out of the box (like the ss 1le) with nothing besides fluid, pad and tire upgrades. I’m nowhere near needing to upgrade pads and tires yet but 4 years from now I may have had enough track time to where if I get a z51 I may need to do the brake upgrade right away.

Still considering one because I really like the LT2 and I do think the platform is an upgrade overall. Also considering an M2, Supra (those 2 may be downgrades though) and a dark horse. If the dark horse was lighter it would be at the top of my list but consumables will be a lot on it. Who knows though I’d like to think my salary will be a bit higher to support darkhorse consumables as well haha.

Yes, you and I think the same. I'll keep the 1LE another 3-4 years while it still is under the powertrain warranty and then move on to something else. It's pretty much just a track car and I sometimes drive it on nice days. It's all stock other than Castrol SRF brake fluid and track alignment. Like you, I have no desire to modify it further (other than different tires and brake pads). Just run it.

The 3-4 year from now timing will likely be toward the end of the C8 model run and new Z06's should be reasonably accessible without long wait lists and ridiculous dealer markups. It's already starting to get better since the ZR1 was announced.

I'm with you on the Z51's not quite being up to par for advanced level drivers. To be honest, I would prefer a C8 Grand Sport over a Z06 if GM decides to make one.

Despite looking forward to my next track car, I'm very impressed with the 1LE every time I go out on track. It's just so good. GM got it right with this one. I was just at Thompson Speedway Road Course 2 weeks ago and New Hampshire Speedway Road Course last week. The car does very well on those tracks.

I'm planning on doing the One Lap of America with it in 2025. Just waiting for the signups to open.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by TransamGTA350

YLike you, I have no desire to modify it further (other than different tires and brake pads). Just run it.

The 3-4 year from now timing will likely be toward the end of the C8 model run and new Z06's should be reasonably accessible without long wait lists and ridiculous dealer markups. It's already starting to get better since the ZR1 was announced.

I'm with you on the Z51's not quite being up to par for advanced level drivers. To be honest, I would prefer a C8 Grand Sport over a Z06 if GM decides to make one.

Despite looking forward to my next track car, I'm very impressed with the 1LE every time I go out on track. It's just so good. GM got it right with this one. I was just at Thompson Speedway Road Course 2 weeks ago and New Hampshire Speedway Road Course last week. The car does very well on those tracks.

I'm planning on doing the One Lap of America with it in 2025. Just waiting for the signups to open.

I have considered when the warranty is up adding power and more aero but every single cammed GM product I have been behind on the track has more blowby then I'd like to see.

I have seen new C8 z06's under msrp around my neck of the woods. I too was looking forward to a grandsport model but I don't think it's happening.

I'm also very impressed with the SS 1le despite looking forward to my next car. Not in a rush to get something else but as a car guy I constantly think abut it haha. I plan to become a better driver and grow with the car. Just made an investment in a mild gaming PC to practice sim racing more.

Wow one lap of America is my dream. I won't be able to do that anytime soon. I am however planning on driving my 1le across America to far away tracks. Going to Watkins Glenn this fall and plan on signing up for Road America in 2025. May also try and squeeze in Road Atlanta in 2025.

[TransamGTA350]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I have considered when the warranty is up adding power and more aero but every single cammed GM product I have been behind on the track has more blowby then I'd like to see.

I have seen new C8 z06's under msrp around my neck of the woods. I too was looking forward to a grandsport model but I don't think it's happening.

I'm also very impressed with the SS 1le despite looking forward to my next car. Not in a rush to get something else but as a car guy I constantly think abut it haha. I plan to become a better driver and grow with the car. Just made an investment in a mild gaming PC to practice sim racing more.

Wow one lap of America is my dream. I won't be able to do that anytime soon. I am however planning on driving my 1le across America to far away tracks. Going to Watkins Glenn this fall and plan on signing up for Road America in 2025. May also try and squeeze in Road Atlanta in 2025.

I've also thought about power adders, but I know that reliability will suffer. It's not worth it. Better to sell it and move on to a different car when the time comes.

Road America looks like a lot of fun, as does Watkins Glenn. Hoping to get to Watkins and NJMP next year in addition to the New England tracks. Hopefully will see you there.

[2023 SSM 1LE]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

This was at Mid Ohio recently. Well driven C8.

Nice driving. I was glad to see you get past that Honda so I didn’t have to listen to it anymore.