[cdb95z28]

Those calipers are cooked. Brembo's powder coating will darken with excessive heat. Check your dust boots, they are probably fried and I would not have high confidence on the piston seals. Time for a rebuild. This discoloration was a little more common on the Gen5s, especially SS 1LE's that did not have any brake cooling. Ever wonder why the Gen5 ZL1 had black calipers form the factory? lol. That car had cooling but it was 580 HP and heavy!

Do yo have the brake deflectors installed on the radius rod (forward, angular control rod)? They came with the car, installed. Regular SS's had much larger flat ones in the trunk at delivery, and until recently those were the ticket to improve front brake cooling. But now the CT5 BlackWing front deflectors are the go-to for improving cooling.

But realistically you are using a much more aggressive pad and the car was not engineered to use that pad. But even at that, there's plenty of guys using those pads and don't have issues. At your skill level you shouldn't be overusing them. The mode selection can matter but usually it's the rear brakes that see the most use to settle the car. If you have good car control, Race mode will be a breeze. I typically run "all off" at my local track, Pitt Race.

Since your pedal returned, it was not fluid boiling. SRF has hot compressibility. I experienced it with my Gen5 SS 1LE. Once the fluid cools down enough the firm pedal returns. Brembo HTC64T and Endless are better for that trait. I wouldn't think you faded those Hawks.

I ran the Alcon caliper stickers on my 6 piston front Gen5 ZL1 equipped '14 SS 1LE. And I ran Raybestos ST43 race pads. Lots of heat. Even though I had lots of cooling, my calipers saw 450*F. I currently have a BCD (copper free package) equipped '22 SS 1LE. The most aggressive pad I've run is the Ferodo DS1.11. Since the BCD brakes are thermal overkill on an SS 1LE the most caliper temp I've seen is 250*F (below pic).

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

So do you think you boiled the fluid or was it a pad fade issue? Everything I have read says pad fade is when the brake pedal is firm and the car isn’t stopping. I wasn’t sure though since your pedal was soft BUT never went to the floor. I know if it goes to the floor that means the fluid boiled.

I’m a novice and had something similar happen to me on track where my pedal was soft after a few laps, I slowed down a bit after the soft pedal and the firm pedal came back quickly.never went to the floor. I definitely overbraked and dragged the brakes in my case (working on that and will be hard and fast going forward).

It wasn't pad fade. Pad fade is as you described. Soft pedal does not automatically mean boiled fluid. But boiling will be another level of soft, like pedal with zero firmness or response. It probably was hot compressibility. This is a real trait and SRF has it more than some other fluids.

https://thebuildjournal.com/tech-gui...s2iJ9OIfGxlKxs

[USMUCL]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

Those calipers are cooked. Brembo's powder coating will darken with excessive heat. Check your dust boots, they are probably fried and I would not have high confidence on the piston seals. Time for a rebuild. This discoloration was a little more common on the Gen5s, especially SS 1LE's that did not have any brake cooling. Ever wonder why the Gen5 ZL1 had black calipers form the factory? lol. That car had cooling but it was 580 HP and heavy!

Do yo have the brake deflectors installed on the radius rod (forward, angular control rod)? They came with the car, installed. Regular SS's had much larger flat ones in the trunk at delivery, and until recently those were the ticket to improve front brake cooling. But now the CT5 BlackWing front deflectors are the go-to for improving cooling.

But realistically you are using a much more aggressive pad and the car was not engineered to use that pad. But even at that, there's plenty of guys using those pads and don't have issues. At your skill level you shouldn't be overusing them. The mode selection can matter but usually it's the rear brakes that see the most use to settle the car. If you have good car control, Race mode will be a breeze. I typically run "all off" at my local track, Pitt Race.

Since your pedal returned, it was not fluid boiling. SRF has hot compressibility. I experienced it with my Gen5 SS 1LE. Once the fluid cools down enough the firm pedal returns. Brembo HTC64T and Endless are better for that trait. I wouldn't think you faded those Hawks.

I ran the Alcon caliper stickers on my 6 piston front Gen5 ZL1 equipped '14 SS 1LE. And I ran Raybestos ST43 race pads. Lots of heat. Even though I had lots of cooling, my calipers saw 450*F. I currently have a BCD (copper free package) equipped '22 SS 1LE. The most aggressive pad I've run is the Ferodo DS1.11. Since the BCD brakes are thermal overkill on an SS 1LE the most caliper temp I've seen is 250*F (below pic).
Attachment 1154030

Thanks for the detailed response. Saw your FB post also.

I get the questions about technique, as you don’t know me.

The strange thing about all this was that I didn’t change the way I used the brakes since last time at the same track, had the same fluid, and the same pads. The only difference was a bit more speed.

And the other strange thing is how the car was fine the rest of the day with nothing more than a mode change and perhaps some conscious awareness of brake preservation.

I might just buy new calipers and have these built and on the shelf as spares.

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by USMUCL

Thanks for the detailed response. Saw your FB post also.

I get the questions about technique, as you don’t know me.

The strange thing about all this was that I didn’t change the way I used the brakes since last time at the same track, had the same fluid, and the same pads. The only difference was a bit more speed.

And the other strange thing is how the car was fine the rest of the day with nothing more than a mode change and perhaps some conscious awareness of brake preservation.

I might just buy new calipers and have these built and on the shelf as spares.

Was there much of a change in ambient temps from the last time you successfully ran the same combo?

Maybe the front caliper seals are getting lazy and the pads were not being pulled in enough? They were dragging? When, if ever, were they rebuilt last?

Same track?

[Dabjbr]

Another vote to say it's abnormal. Could have been caused by inadequate ventilation (Use the Blackwing version) poor brake fluid (Castrol SRF works best for me) and another thing...

I don't know how many people run DTC60 on the stock SC3 tires. I think many go with a more aggressive tire too. Perhaps that combined with running a conservative PTM freaked out the system??

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

It wasn't pad fade. Pad fade is as you described. Soft pedal does not automatically mean boiled fluid. But boiling will be another level of soft, like pedal with zero firmness or response. It probably was hot compressibility. This is a real trait and SRF has it more than some other fluids.

https://thebuildjournal.com/tech-gui...s2iJ9OIfGxlKxs

Thanks for the link. You commented on my other thread about this but since then I had talked to other people and they all told me I boiled the fluid. I am going to bleed it again just in case. I also bedded the pads yesterday as best I could as I think that may have been a problem as well.

[Osbornsm]

Originally Posted by Dabjbr

I don't know how many people run DTC60 on the stock SC3 tires.

I run this combo relentlessly.


Zero issues since i went to SRF

[DaveC113]

Not abnormal at all... it's quite common. A quick search will confirm that.

It depends on the track and pads used, higher mu pads make more heat in the caliper, and if you use up the brake pad there will be more heat transferred to the caliper as the pad wears.

With Ferodo 3.12 pads my calipers started to darken a bit after the pads were about half worn, and gradually darkened more as the pads were used up. Brakes work just fine, Brembo HTC64T fluid, carbon lines, CT5V deflectors.

[Dabjbr]

Dave, I think caliper discoloration is common elsewhere but I'd venture to say uncommon when it comes to the Camaro.

[Dabjbr]

Originally Posted by Osbornsm

I run this combo relentlessly.


Zero issues since i went to SRF

Nice! Not to derail but are you on stock 20" or another size? Just curious as there's some connection to the OP's question

[USMUCL]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

Was there much of a change in ambient temps from the last time you successfully ran the same combo?

Maybe the front caliper seals are getting lazy and the pads were not being pulled in enough? They were dragging? When, if ever, were they rebuilt last?

Same track?

Same track, similar ambient, car only has 15k miles on it, so calipers are original.

Only thing that changed was the tune, and any inadvertent change in driving style by the idiot behind the wheel.

[Osbornsm]

Originally Posted by Dabjbr

Nice! Not to derail but are you on stock 20" or another size? Just curious as there's some connection to the OP's question

I'm on SS 1le 20's.

[USMUCL]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Not abnormal at all... it's quite common. A quick search will confirm that.

It depends on the track and pads used, higher mu pads make more heat in the caliper, and if you use up the brake pad there will be more heat transferred to the caliper as the pad wears.

With Ferodo 3.12 pads my calipers started to darken a bit after the pads were about half worn, and gradually darkened more as the pads were used up. Brakes work just fine, Brembo HTC64T fluid, carbon lines, CT5V deflectors.

You’re not the first person to tell me this is not unusual and, perhaps, nothing to be terrible concerned about.

Spoke to another person who this happened to. He said the dust boots burned up, but otherwise fine. Another told me it is common for Sport 1 to burn up the brakes once you approach a certain speed/level.

[DaveC113]

Slightly OT but related, what are folks using for caliper rebuild kits?