[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by Dabjbr

I wish I had seen this post before. Instead, I played investigator last night and most of this morning.

Anyway, I find it very interesting that the same UPC number was/is used for different formulations. In the image below, the left 2 pictures are from my garage and the last Dexos2 formula I used. The right 2 pictures are of the new ESP X4 formula that no longer covers Dexos2. Notice how both of them use the same UPC number. Why does that matter? Well, one can easily purchase the wrong formula. In fact, the guys at Autozone tried to tell me it's the same but untrue and that was confirmed with a phone call to Mobil 1.

Unfortunately, the older formula cost $11.99 each but Autozone always ran a special 6 bottles for $45 or $7.50 each.

The new DexosR bottles are $12.99 and Autozone has no deals. The cheapest now is 6 bottles for $59 on Amazon or $9.83 each.

Interesting, thanks for sharing this info. The same AutoZone product webpage was shipping both 0W-40 ESP and the new ESP X3 back when they changed the original ESP formula to be labeled as Supercar. There were slight spec sheet differences between the two but at least they were both Dexos 2.

It feels to me like the DexosR certification program is mostly designed to upcharge the customer. The owner's manual still says it is fine to run 15W-50 full synthetic oil on track (not Dexos 2 or DexosR certified) so I personally doubt the certification means much in terms of actually providing increased engine protection but it is worth the extra money so there's no possible way for a dealership to deny a warranty claim based on your oil not meeting the required Dexos certification.

Similarly they've never offered 5 quart jugs of 0W-40 Dexos 2 or R oil in the United States that I could find even though every Camaro with the LT1 engine takes 10 quarts. Individual quarts are usually priced higher per quart than 5 quart jugs.

Personally I would not be comfortable leaving 15W oil in my car all of the time because of added cold start wear compared to 0W or 5W (especially when it is cold outside but in general even in the summer) since I drive on the street quite a bit.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by Classic Muscle

My 2 local Autozones still have the ESPx3. The ESPx3 bottles is pretty much identical to the x4. No indication of what the difference is. Dexos 2 license doesn't appear on the x4 which means they could have just stop paying the license fee, I mean why would they put the Dexos 2 license# on the bottle if Dexos 2 has been phased out.

I would call BS on Mobil 1 saying the formula is different or that it doesn't meet Dexos 2 requirements... Unless they list the formula differences I'm not buying it.

The X4 says European Car Formula on the bottle. The AutoZone website has also been updated to list this in the product title.

The 5 quart jugs of 0W-40 European Car Formula that have been on the market for 5+ years have never been Dexos 2 certified. I guess there's no way to know if the reason is because the oil doesn't meet Dexos 2 standards or because Mobil 1 didn't want to pay the licensing fee when the product is marketed to European cars rather than GM cars. I would guess that it doesn't meet the standards otherwise it would have been cheaper/easier for them to have the same formula/bottle for both European cars and GM cars and just get it Dexos 2 certified.

[Patriot Motorsports USA]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

The owner's manual states that you must use Dexos 2 (or DexosR for the newer model years) for track use. Even if it is the same or very close to other cheaper oil options, it is worth the extra money to cover yourself in case you have a warranty claim because they could ask for receipts and if you didn't use the required oil they could deny your warranty claim.

I had about $6k of warranty engine work done on my car shortly before the warranty ran out. They didn't ask for receipts in my case which I found kind of surprising since I did my own oil changes besides one "free" oil change (upcharge for 0W-40 Dexos 2) at the dealership right after I bought the car.

The Dexos certification is simply a standard GM requires for a certain friction modifier additive package in the oil used in their engines. All the seals, measurements and cooling are designed around such a standard. You will see on any quality oil made, that it meets and/or exceeds those standards. I have learned in my own testing and over a decade of owning vehicles that came OEM with a Mobil1 fluid fill, there are far better lubricants when it comes to wear, cooling and pressure recovery. I do not baby, paint correct or revolve my world around making my ZLE "look pretty"... she is for the purpose of being beat upon for my enjoyment! So I am equipping my car with what it needs to go the distance, for a sustained entire full tank of fuel, on a road course without issues, overheating or severe failures. Mobil1, cannot come close to filling that specification I have.

[Classic Muscle]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

The X4 says European Car Formula on the bottle. The AutoZone website has also been updated to list this in the product title.

The 5 quart jugs of 0W-40 European Car Formula that have been on the market for 5+ years have never been Dexos 2 certified. I guess there's no way to know if the reason is because the oil doesn't meet Dexos 2 standards or because Mobil 1 didn't want to pay the licensing fee when the product is marketed to European cars rather than GM cars. I would guess that it doesn't meet the standards otherwise it would have been cheaper/easier for them to have the same formula/bottle for both European cars and GM cars and just get it Dexos 2 certified.

The X3 has European car formula on the bottle as well.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by Classic Muscle

The X3 has European car formula on the bottle as well.

Interesting, they must have changed the bottle since my last big order from AutoZone.com because my bottles have never mentioned European Car Formula.

I guess this improves the odds that ESP X4 actually meets Dexos2 but wasn't tested/certified.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Interesting, they must have changed the bottle since my last big order from AutoZone.com because my bottles have never mentioned European Car Formula.

I guess this improves the odds that ESP X4 actually meets Dexos2 but wasn't tested/certified.

I suspect you're right, but is there any price advantage to ESP X4? Last year you could get that deal with 5 quarts of X3 and an STP filter. I don't think that works anymore, and last I looked, X4 was like $13/qt. May as well just get DexosR from Amazon.

[cdrptrks]

Yes, if you click See Available Deals the deal is still ongoing. It has been available every time I've checked for years. Some locations will let you return the oil filters to make the deal better.

https://www.autozone.com/motor-oil-a...rt/1177215_0_0

[N Camarolina]

I've been a consistent user of the ESP x3 (cheaper through the Autozone discount and just as good if not better specs than the ESP and Supercar versions). It was important to me that it was Dexos2 rated because I track mine and need the powertrain warranty. Now it is no more, at least under that labeling. If the ESP x4 has a very similar additive pack and the high temp viscosity and flow numbers are comparable to the Supercar, I'd consider using it.

So does anybody know how similar or different the ESP x4 is from an additive package perspective (SAPs) perspective?

[Classic Muscle]

Lake Speed does an analysis of the Supercar 0W-40 in this video below, and touches on the ESP X3. Maybe he will compare the ESP X3 and X4 in a future video. Alternatively you could send the X3 in for analysis and then do the same with X4.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by Classic Muscle

Lake Speed does an analysis of the Supercar 0W-40 in this video below, and touches on the ESP X3. Maybe he will compare the ESP X3 and X4 in a future video. Alternatively you could send the X3 in for analysis and then do the same with X4.

Thanks for flagging this. I not only watched this one (in response) a couple of times, but some of his others as well.

Lake's vids are a bit hard to follow, but I like the detail he gets into and the fact that he's helping put additional data out there. Especially like the one he did on shear stress test and helping you understand what that tends to do to a variable viscosity oil.