[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by db2022cs

Thanks for the response, Tail of the Dragon is a very dangerous road to be on. I have driven it a few dozen times. I rarely if ever go on weekends and try to plan around other events. I tend to drive very reserved on the dragon because even at low speeds it can be dangerous. The biggest issue is relying on the other drivers staying in their lane and being predictable. I have a couple HPDE events coming up in the next 3 months so I can get a chance to explore the limits a bit more there. I'm going to have my first couple laps with an experienced driver kind of show me what the car is capable of.

Thanks for the responses so far.

Two other key points to help you:

1) If you don't have on-track experience with a high HP rear-wheel drive car, DO NOT make the assumption that your road experience with previous front drive or AWD cars will prepare you for the risks with pushing an SS on a road or track. Sure, both of the latter will get you familiar with understeer, but that's much easier to manage than oversteer that the Camaro can bring to the table. This is one reason why you see so many videos of wrecked mustangs and supercars on YT. Learning to control oversteer is best done on a dedicated wet skidpad (HPDE days sometimes offer this), or perhaps at autocross or HPDE track day. And because oversteer is something you learn to control through failure, public roads are not the place.

2) If you plan to do HPDE, book events that provide a qualified instructor in your car. Not just for a few laps, but for the entire track-day/weekend. Instructors will point out and help you fix your basic flaws, which in turn will keep you safe and create an environment where you can learn valuable car control skills and start to push harder. Knowing how fast your car can go around a track is very different from having the skills to pilot the car around the track by yourself at that same speed. In fact, I'd say that with the wrong approach and some bad habits you (driving solo) could lose control of the car while going at a slower pace than what an instructor could successfully drive your car at.

[NinthWave]

Originally Posted by JTS

Hi sorry, can someone explain 9/10 7/10 ?
How do you know what 5/10 7/10 , where that is ? . Thanks

Here's one view of "tenths" just scroll down a few topics. https://www.peterkrause.net/Krause_%...ck_Wisdom.html

Peter Krause and Ross Bentley (Speed Secrets) are good resources imo.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by db2022cs

What I'm curious about is how does the car handle when you push it to the edge of grip.

I don't have an answer to that, but this is how it handles at 10/10ths. An unreal experience with suspension engineer Bill Wise attacking corners at 130 mph+.

[db2022cs]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Two other key points to help you:

1) If you don't have on-track experience with a high HP rear-wheel drive car, DO NOT make the assumption that your road experience with previous front drive or AWD cars will prepare you for the risks with pushing an SS on a road or track. Sure, both of the latter will get you familiar with understeer, but that's much easier to manage than oversteer that the Camaro can bring to the table. This is one reason why you see so many videos of wrecked mustangs and supercars on YT. Learning to control oversteer is best done on a dedicated wet skidpad (HPDE days sometimes offer this), or perhaps at autocross or HPDE track day. And because oversteer is something you learn to control through failure, public roads are not the place.

2) If you plan to do HPDE, book events that provide a qualified instructor in your car. Not just for a few laps, but for the entire track-day/weekend. Instructors will point out and help you fix your basic flaws, which in turn will keep you safe and create an environment where you can learn valuable car control skills and start to push harder. Knowing how fast your car can go around a track is very different from having the skills to pilot the car around the track by yourself at that same speed. In fact, I'd say that with the wrong approach and some bad habits you (driving solo) could lose control of the car while going at a slower pace than what an instructor could successfully drive your car at.

Thanks for the response. I believe on one of the HPDE events, it is required for your first event to have an instructor with you at all time, I'll have to look again. I'll try to find somewhere to do some skid pad training or something like that. I think that is where I have very little knowledge on how a car handles in oversteer. The Veloster N I had had very good rotation and was surprisingly easy to get it to oversteer lifting off throttle on a turn. I will be very careful with throttle control especially on turns. All those Mustangs and supercars that wreck is a lot of throttle while turning which is a bad mix.

[LT1gen6]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

. . An unreal experience with suspension engineer Bill Wise attacking corners at 130 mph+.

I've watched that video many times, always admiring the Nurburgring track, with a totally isolated car and driver. Pro driver, knows the track, able to use the its entire width to his sole advantage, truly owning the road, which is lined with guardrails. And, Camaro is such a beast in that context, free of the texting, untrained drivers that are typified by sitting at green lights until someone honks them out of their device coma.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by db2022cs

So, this is my first RWD car that I have owned. I have owned AWD and FWD cars, the AWD car (Kia Stinger) was a damn boat and a rarely drove it aggressively around turns. My FWD car (Veloster N) was a very nimble car and I drove it pretty close to the edge of grip for that platform. I'm interested in seeing what the car is capable when the weather gets better and seeing how it compares to the Veloster N. I have the 2SS 1LE so the diff, wider tires and MRC should help.

What I'm curious about is how does the car handle when you push it to the edge of grip. Can you feel it getting close or is it like an edge that comes out of nowhere? I'm assuming It's the former as I constantly read about the high praise for the Camaro chassis. I ask these questions because I will be taking the car to the Tail of the Dragon a few times this year. Eventually I am going to start tracking the car too so I'll have a better outlet for exploring the limits. Thanks for sharing any tips or experiences.

The SS-1LE can outperform most drivers. The limit will more likely be you than the car. Pay for a driver mod in the car with an instructor on a track. If you have an open mind to learning, you won't be disappointed with the result.

[N Camarolina]

Having driven the SS 1LE on the track at 10/10ths, with recommended track alignment settings, I can share some of my observations:

1) Natural tendency on corner entry is slight understeer, provided you already scrubbed your speed prior to turn in and are off the brakes.

2) With trail braking into the corner, the car will pivot much more readily and will oversteer if trail braking is too aggressive. However, going through unusual corners that might upset the car's balance (uphill crest, or off camber) oversteer can happen if you are merely off the throttle completely, as there won't be enough weight on the rear tires.

3) The rear can be made to rotate slowly, in which case it feels like you are a god controlling a ballerina. But it's equally possible (and likely at my still developing skill level) that the rotation can occur considerably faster, which is definitely harder to catch because your reaction has to be that much quicker and you don't have any time to figure out the appropriate amount of counter steer. Here's an example of my biggest mistake so far on track, with a big pucker factor as I could have easily destroyed the car had I not been able to stop the left-hand rotation in time. I didn't get it completely correct, but I made the conscious decision to go off the track to the right (fast forward to the second lap):

One of the best things you can do to prepare for managing oversteer is to learn the CPR (correct, pause, recover) method. Randy Pobst used to have a video on YT about this which was excellent, but I can't find it now. There are other web pages that provide explanations of CPR, but don't quite do it the same justice. At any rate, try to visualize the 3 steps and then practice this on the skidpad.

[db2022cs]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Having driven the SS 1LE on the track at 10/10ths, with recommended track alignment settings, I can share some of my observations:

1) Natural tendency on corner entry is slight understeer, provided you already scrubbed your speed prior to turn in and are off the brakes.

2) With trail braking into the corner, the car will pivot much more readily and will oversteer if trail braking is too aggressive. However, going through unusual corners that might upset the car's balance (uphill crest, or off camber) oversteer can happen if you are merely off the throttle completely, as there won't be enough weight on the rear tires.

3) The rear can be made to rotate slowly, in which case it feels like you are a god controlling a ballerina. But it's equally possible (and likely at my still developing skill level) that the rotation can occur considerably faster, which is definitely harder to catch because your reaction has to be that much quicker and you don't have any time to figure out the appropriate amount of counter steer. Here's an example of my biggest mistake so far on track, with a big pucker factor as I could have easily destroyed the car had I not been able to stop the left-hand rotation in time. I didn't get it completely correct, but I made the conscious decision to go off the track to the right (fast forward to the second lap):

One of the best things you can do to prepare for managing oversteer is to learn the CPR (correct, pause, recover) method. Randy Pobst used to have a video on YT about this which was excellent, but I can't find it now. There are other web pages that provide explanations of CPR, but don't quite do it the same justice. At any rate, try to visualize the 3 steps and then practice this on the skidpad.

Oh boy, that was a good save, could have gone into that grass sideways instead of straight on. Thanks for the response and the input. Was this the video you are talking about?

[N Camarolina]

Yep, that's the CPR video I was thinking of!

Most advice that talk about catching oversteer (including the new driver's manuals for teens) doesn't properly explain what to do after you've caught the slide. Your only 1/2 way out of the woods at that point, and need to quickly get the steering wheel back to the pre-spin position (recover). Otherwise the car will quickly start to rotate in opposite direction of the original spin (over correct) and you'll be in a fish-tail situation.