[TJay74]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

That's not how it works. They flow +30% more then a LT4 injector at 2800psi. You won't get that flow if your fuel supply to the injectors isn't up to par and the pressure drops low enough where the injectors open up past the point of safe injection(6.4ms). Normally the last thing that needs changed on a LT4 system is the injector. Low side usually goes first, then high side, then injectors.

Low side solution(s)- JMS booster, Aux fuel pump, For innovations intank pump.

High side- Cam with bigger lobe, LPE DI pump with matching cam, or Katech belt driven DI pump.

All in one solution...Weapon X SPI port injection with low side pump.


It all comes down to power goals. I seen a ZL1 make close to 800whp on E85 with FIC +30, Cam wit 32% lobe, LPE DI pump, and aux low side. Meth and pump gas would get by with less fuel mods. Meth and Race fuel could make those numbers on the stock LT4 fuel system. So a lot of it has to do with the type of fuel you plan on running as well.

I wonder how the Katech +30% injectors would work with the full LT4 fuel system and their injectors as a stage 1 option and then a stage 2 option being to change out the cam with a +30% fuel lobe cam?

Originally Posted by Bmf5150

Honestly I rather run a little low side injection as well to keep the valve clean .

Huh, that isnt how the DI injection system works at all. The DI injectors dont spray any fuel at the valves at all, no matter what change is made in regards to a different injector or a upgraded LPFP, or HPFP. The injector tip is physically inside of the combustion port and fires the fuel right into the chamber of the piston and the spark plug.

The only way to introduce any fuel back into the pre intake valve side loop is to add a port fuel injection solution that spray fuel into the intake runners in an atomized suspension. At that point then you will get some fuel wash across the backside of the intake valve.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by TJay74

The only way to introduce any fuel back into the pre intake valve side loop is to add a port fuel injection

This is what he meant.

[Bmf5150]

Sorry meant low pressure port injection

Originally Posted by TJay74

I wonder how the Katech +30% injectors would work with the full LT4 fuel system and their injectors as a stage 1 option and then a stage 2 option being to change out the cam with a +30% fuel lobe cam?




Huh, that isnt how the DI injection system works at all. The DI injectors dont spray any fuel at the valves at all, no matter what change is made in regards to a different injector or a upgraded LPFP, or HPFP. The injector tip is physically inside of the combustion port and fires the fuel right into the chamber of the piston and the spark plug.

The only way to introduce any fuel back into the pre intake valve side loop is to add a port fuel injection solution that spray fuel into the intake runners in an atomized suspension. At that point then you will get some fuel wash across the backside of the intake valve.

[EDFHOBBIES]

2 things need to happen when showing us this great product, "Katech" I for one had no problem investing in it but was turned off from unanswered questions and proof from Jason!

On paper and theory it looks great but talking to Jason I haven't seen nor has he showed me a car over 1000 rwhp or even close to that on all DI and E85. I did see one with this setup and Port injection making a little over a 1000 hp and it was said that the port injection only contributed to 100 hp of that number.

#1. I never could get an accurate answer from Katech or Mr. Uwe that something like a DSX pump would be enough to feed the DI belt driven pump. I found 1st hand its not enough to feed the Lingenfelter pump I was told by them I need 100 psi low side and 85 continuously under load something not told upfront. However its still out performs the oem LT4 stuff by a mile and is a good investment if you want to keep it simple.

2# Going by where my plus 30s were in terms of milliseconds for firing I can't see plus 45 even with 3000 psi steady never falling off being able to take you much past 1000. On race fuel it probably has no problem doing so but then again the oem fuel system will to.

If the setup is true we need to see an all DI car with plus 45s on e85 making 1000rwhp.

[Choda]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

snip

interesting and i agree. For that much money, I wanna see some dyno jet results then a stupid trap speed.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by Choda

interesting and i agree. For that much money, I wanna see some dyno jet results then a stupid trap speed.

To specify what low side and size of injector I heard plus 60 available now..

If this needs a 4k low side omg..

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

To specify what low side and size of injector I heard plus 60 available now..

If this needs a 4k low side omg..

God I hope not but if so this is one of the most expensive cars I've modified.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Tuner just sent this.. I had to go port since proven! All Kroger's e85 no meth..

[TJay74]

I am not an engineer by any means, but here is my thought.

If the low side can be solved and as said can get to the point where it can reliably hold 75+ psi or more, then coupled with a +32 cam along with the LT4 or Lingenfelter HPFP then along with these new injectors I would be interested at that point if the HPFP will be able to keep up.

The biggest problem I have seen is we can get the low side pretty solid, then as the high side is pushed near 2900psi along with the injectors staying open anywhere from 5.0ms-6.0ms the next problem you run into is the high side drops off.

Man it sucks that DI has to be this hard to modify, but it explains exactly why the C7 ZR1 has a dual fuel injection system in place. Granted GM only has to make the system be able to produce power on 91 octane gasoline since they dont rate nor certify the system to be reliable on E85.

[Katech_Zach]

Originally Posted by gotswap

Got it

So stock in tank pump, stock cam and DI pump. What will these flow? Then if I add a low side pump to help feed, what will they flow?

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

2 things need to happen when showing us this great product, "Katech" I for one had no problem investing in it but was turned off from unanswered questions and proof from Jason!

On paper and theory it looks great but talking to Jason I haven't seen nor has he showed me a car over 1000 rwhp or even close to that on all DI and E85. I did see one with this setup and Port injection making a little over a 1000 hp and it was said that the port injection only contributed to 100 hp of that number.

#1. I never could get an accurate answer from Katech or Mr. Uwe that something like a DSX pump would be enough to feed the DI belt driven pump. I found 1st hand its not enough to feed the Lingenfelter pump I was told by them I need 100 psi low side and 85 continuously under load something not told upfront. However its still out performs the oem LT4 stuff by a mile and is a good investment if you want to keep it simple.

2# Going by where my plus 30s were in terms of milliseconds for firing I can't see plus 45 even with 3000 psi steady never falling off being able to take you much past 1000. On race fuel it probably has no problem doing so but then again the oem fuel system will to.

If the setup is true we need to see an all DI car with plus 45s on e85 making 1000rwhp.

Originally Posted by TJay74

I am not an engineer by any means, but here is my thought.

If the low side can be solved and as said can get to the point where it can reliably hold 75+ psi or more, then coupled with a +32 cam along with the LT4 or Lingenfelter HPFP then along with these new injectors I would be interested at that point if the HPFP will be able to keep up.

The biggest problem I have seen is we can get the low side pretty solid, then as the high side is pushed near 2900psi along with the injectors staying open anywhere from 5.0ms-6.0ms the next problem you run into is the high side drops off.

Man it sucks that DI has to be this hard to modify, but it explains exactly why the C7 ZR1 has a dual fuel injection system in place. Granted GM only has to make the system be able to produce power on 91 octane gasoline since they dont rate nor certify the system to be reliable on E85.

I will try to answer all of these in one shot:

-The XDI pump is a secondary high pressure fuel pump with a maximum fuel pressure output of 250bar / 3600psi. This is dependent on how fast you spin this pump.

-The amount of fuel that is able to go through the high-pressure side of the vehicles fuel system (both the OEM and XDI pump) is the amount of fuel that the low side pump is able to provide. Whether it is port injection, direct injection, or a combination of both, you will need a specific amount of fuel flow coming from the fuel tank to adequately provide any sort of fueling to the engine.

-On an engine dyno (not a car as you requested), we made 1486hp with only direct injection on race gas and 1308hp on e85. This would be near 1300whp and 1150whp respectively through a manual transmission in a vehicle. This engine was running the Hellion Twin Turbo kit for a Gen 6 Camaro on a stock LT5 camshaft, the precision 6266 turbos were to small to be pushed further. This is a great example of the DI system being able to keep up when the low pressure fuel system supplying the dyno was up to par.

-The smaller DSX pump is a great addition for certain power goals, otherwise you will have to go to a larger auxiliary pump or a larger in-tank solution. This is dependent on the horsepower you are trying to make obviously. I can help determine if that pump is adequate for a specific application if I knew what that application was.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Thanks Zach..

I like the idea keep it simple.. keep all di..

However I had to go port.

9k I could do for the high side but not an additional 2500 to 4k for the intank low side.

It was just cheaper to go port assist.

Keep up the good work providing great products for us.. also keep in mind don't price yourself out of the market for us blue collars. I know R and D cost a lot but maybe quantity of units sold could recoop some of the cost more quickly.

[Choda]

I did some digging. The CSP zl1 for the guitar guy made over 1k on straight 93 w the Katech system a while ago. There’s the proof. This system is the real deal for guys looking to make 1k+ and staying di.

https://youtu.be/5gm8RufkQN0

[Katech_Zach]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

Thanks Zach..

I like the idea keep it simple.. keep all di..

However I had to go port.

9k I could do for the high side but not an additional 2500 to 4k for the intank low side.

It was just cheaper to go port assist.

Keep up the good work providing great products for us.. also keep in mind don't price yourself out of the market for us blue collars. I know R and D cost a lot but maybe quantity of units sold could recoop some of the cost more quickly.

Understandable as to why you decided to go with the addition of port injection. We will continue to do our best to be innovative while bringing the best products to market.

As for everyone, there is discounts for pairing the pump and the injectors together. I will try to get pricing posted tomorrow. We understand that it is tougher to push out product that is at higher dollar amounts, but you must understand you are getting the absolute highest quality products in return.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by Choda

I did some digging. The CSP zl1 for the guitar guy made over 1k on straight 93 w the Katech system a while ago. There’s the proof. This system is the real deal for guys looking to make 1k+ and staying di.

https://youtu.be/5gm8RufkQN0

That's a great video.. 93 on that level of power holly smokes. That could be old school like 8:1 compression and big ass or 2 big ass turbos to get over the octane hurdle. As far as pressure e85 would require 30% more been nice to see that part.