[ChildhoodMuscle]

That's why I switched to a SS 1LE... to get back into a manual. Drove manuals all my life (mostly Porsches, with an M3, a Subaru, and a Honda mixed in - I have no brand loyalty, haha). Then I got an Evo X MR (twin-clutch, I still have & enjoy) and Camaro 2SS A8. But after 8 years of autos I was itching for that connection with the car. I know I'm definitely slower with the manual, but as others have said, it's not all about going fast (though the 1LE is plenty fast).

[hotlap]

I drove a 16 2SS A8 for 20,000 miles (2.25 years). I’ve driven my 18 2SS M6 for 9,000 miles (1.2 year).

The A8 was noticeably, seat of the pants, faster off the line and performance shift mode was awesome. The M6 is fun to hold 2nd gear when driving around town and auto rev matching is nice.

Bottom line: I like them both and say don’t underestimate how fun these automatics are ...and I come from a manual only background too.

Shift by wire? Really? Your head will explode when you get a “shift denied” and realize you are not in control.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Same thing is happening in heavy tucks. The days of the double clutching 18 speed are quickly disappearing, being replaced by automated manuals and automatics. One, electronically managing shifting improves FE and second with the huge driver shortage they are easier to drive.

I’ve worked the past 20 years for a body builder that uses hundreds of heavy trucks per year. 60k to 130k GVW. 10-speeds and 18-speed. One of my responsibilities is specifying all the trucks.

10 years ago it was 99% manual. Now the majority are are automatic. Automated manuals haven’t quite gained acceptance but I’ve driven them loaded on the manufactures test track and they are great!

[Petrol Head]

I am not that old (42) and I’ll never own an automatic. People who continue to drive home the point that today’s automatics are faster than equivalent manuals and get better fuel economy still miss the point. I like the mechanical connection to a car. I like the involvement. I like the feel. I enjoy a perfect downshift and hearing the engine tach up and down in a shift that does not happen with flappy paddles. It’s just more fun. Being .2 seconds faster to 60 or getting better fuel economy frankly do not matter to me or factor into my car buying decision at all. Besides, with the Camaro SS and even the C8 Corvette if it had a manual, it’s still pretty darn fast and faster than 99% of what’s on the road. Like Charlton Heston, they’ll have to take my stick shift from my cold, dead hands.

[NeverDie]

The C8 has a manual. Autos have torque converters. It just isn't the ancient lever-and-pedals the old timers want.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

The C8 has a manual. Autos have torque converters. It just isn't the ancient lever-and-pedals the old timers want.

So you’re saying there’s a chance

[Dixie ZL1]

I wonder how the fit the clutch and shifter in the C8.R for the sequential box that’s in it. If the dual clutch A8 was that good they wouldn’t have put a manual clutch in the race car.

Tells me the there’s a path for the Z06 / ZR1

[cellsafemode]

dual clutches are expensive

racecars destroy their drivetrain rapidly and get rebuilt often. If the manual and the dual clutch under the control of a professional differ only a tiny bit, then the manual would make more sense because it's cheaper to maintain and replace and has less parts that can fail during a race. The dual clutch could still outperform it ...but the reliability / lower cost of a slower part can outweigh those benefits when a pro minimizes the benefits on top of that.

dual clutch is pretty awesome, my wife's ralliart has it. It's really the best of both worlds. It's just much more of a hassle to maintain and not sure if it due to the rarity of them currently but even changing the fluid yourself is expensive.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Dixie ZL1

I wonder how the fit the clutch and shifter in the C8.R for the sequential box that’s in it. If the dual clutch A8 was that good they wouldn’t have put a manual clutch in the race car.

Tells me the there’s a path for the Z06 / ZR1

This sounds like a DCT to me, shifts are incredibly fast.

https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator...irmed-for-2020

[Dixie ZL1]

Originally Posted by Number 3

This sounds like a DCT to me, shifts are incredibly fast.

https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator...irmed-for-2020

Watch the video.... sequential manual trans. Probably dual, triple, or quad clutch, but operated by a pedal.

https://youtu.be/au9RmIss74A

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by protovack

It's only a matter of time before this becomes a reality. A dual clutch transmission already IS a manual transmission. This would not require a new transmission. If you hooked it up to a "clutch pedal" and a "stick" then you could feasibly control it by wire, effectively simulating a traditional manual transmission, with an automatic option if you wanted it. It's the best of both worlds. There would be a huge market for this, because it would give you the ability to have a real manual transmission whenever you wanted it, then switch it to automatic for the commute, etc. Sort of like NPP exhaust for transmissions

No, a dual clutch transmission is not a manual, and especially not when it's in an application which has a fully automatic mode that won't keep bouncing off the rev limiter/ fuel cutoff if you don't shift up a gear or allow the engine to stall if the revs get too low and you don't downshift.

What you're describing is functionally no different than manual upshift and downshift electronic buttons on the steering wheel or transmission lever, you're just changing the location and complexity of how those buttons work to more closely simulate a true manual transmission's function - but it's still video game controller buttons.

Maybe if you had some kind of EPAS-like electromechanical device that would depress and release a clutch pedal with the normal physical connection between pedal and transmission you could make an argument... but that's not what's available.

At best, in a street car, what you've got is a manually actuated automatic transmission, or more accurately an OPTIONALLY manual actuated automatic transmission, and whether the rest of the transmission is dual clutch or slush box matters as much for what general kind of transmission they are as whether a differential is Haldex or Torsen - both are limited slip type, and all the arguing in the world over which LSD is better doesn't change that neither are open.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

No, a dual clutch transmission is not a manual, and especially not when it's in an application which has a fully automatic mode that won't keep bouncing off the rev limiter/ fuel cutoff if you don't shift up a gear or allow the engine to stall if the revs get too low and you don't downshift.

What you're describing is functionally no different than manual upshift and downshift electronic buttons on the steering wheel or transmission lever, you're just changing the location and complexity of how those buttons work to more closely simulate a true manual transmission's function - but it's still video game controller buttons.

Maybe if you had some kind of EPAS-like electromechanical device that would depress and release a clutch pedal with the normal physical connection between pedal and transmission you could make an argument... but that's not what's available.

At best, in a street car, what you've got is a manually actuated automatic transmission, or more accurately an OPTIONALLY manual actuated automatic transmission, and whether the rest of the transmission is dual clutch or slush box matters as much for what general kind of transmission they are as whether a differential is Haldex or Torsen - both are limited slip type, and all the arguing in the world over which LSD is better doesn't change that neither are open.

Respectfully disagree. The only clutch in an automatic locks the drivetrain for FE purposes. It still relies on a torque convertor, which earns an automatic the endearing term "slush box".

A DCT is for all intents and purposes a manual transmission. A clutch must be disengaged in order to shift gears. The wonderment of the DCT is you have another gear path with another clutch ready to go which is why they shift so fast. Yes, computer controlled and far less engaging if you like to drive using your left foot and right arm for something while driving.

But it is NOT a true manual because the driver doesn't have to do anything. It drives almost identically to an automatic. Almost.

Fun fact, when the C7 was originally a Mid Engine design (pre bankruptcy) the car got longer and heavier because GM had to put a torque converter in along WITH the DCT. At that time drivability of DCTs around town, stop start was quite bad, even in the best of super cars. Working and timing the clutches was rough at that time. Ultimately that program died and we got what we affectionately called the C6.5, and you can thank the Government for the C7. It was their idea.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Fun fact, when the C7 was originally a Mid Engine design (pre bankruptcy) the car got longer and heavier because GM had to put a torque converter in along WITH the DCT. At that time drivability of DCTs around town, stop start was quite bad, even in the best of super cars. Working and timing the clutches was rough at that time. Ultimately that program died and we got what we affectionately called the C6.5, and you can thank the Government for the C7. It was their idea.

There’s not much you could ever thank our illustrious government for, but you can for the C7. It’s the best looking Vette since the ‘63-67. Maybe the best looking ever. But I could be biased

[USAFS197]

I'm all about the advancement of the platform. While I love manual transmission vehicles and have owned almost exclusively manual transmission vehicles my entire life, I understand that the future is going to lend itself to automatic/automated transmissions. I could kick, scream, cry and whine about it all I'd like but, when it comes to a car like the C8, I don't want to see a manual transmission option for it. There's far, far too many people out there who can't drive a manual transmission to save their life but insist on getting one, because it feels proper. Therein inconsistent performance metrics become commonplace and to me, brings the legacy of the vehicle down a notch, just to accommodate the now niche group of enthusiasts who insist on having it.

If they had a true sequential transmission that was more street friendly, I think more people would be on board with that experience, since it seems more "manual".