[hashtag]

Originally Posted by ninetres

We’ll find out at some point before too long. I have 1LE wheels/tires for my base ZL1. I’ll hit Buttonwillow in the fall and throw down a few flyers. I predict sub 1:55s.

I have owned both ZL1 1LE & currently the A10. It would not be a race. Even on a track the ZL1 has hire trap speeds. Without the suspension, tire and aero it is not a race on the tack. ZL1 1LE would murder us on the track I think.

[mariojmoe]

Originally Posted by Sakudog

ON a road course ZL1 1LE will be slower than the A10 with 1LE wheels & tires in the hands of most...

In a drag race... well, it's not even kinda close, A10 destroys the M6 car from a roll and murders it from a DIG.

at least, that is what I have observed out at COTA and the streets of Mexico.

I'd love to roll race an A10 or any auto vs my manual. I'm a hell of a driver in a stick and usually (not always) pull on auto's in my manuals on 40-50 rolls

[ninetres]

Originally Posted by hashtag

I have owned both ZL1 1LE & currently the A10. It would not be a race. Even on a track the ZL1 has hire trap speeds. Without the suspension, tire and aero it is not a race on the tack. ZL1 1LE would murder us on the track I think.

Oh it would absolutely be a race on a 3m circuit on equal tire. I’m not advocating the base model would beat/tie it over 1 lap......but the tire upgrade would significantly improve the lap time of the base model car and the delta isn’t astronomical.

An SS1LE was 3.5s off the ZL1-1LE pace at MRLS. Add 190ish HP, and a bigger R-compound tire to the SS1LE and you tell me how much lap time you approximate that to be worth.

“Murder us” “not be a race” is blatant hyperbole.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by mariojmoe

I'd love to roll race an A10 or any auto vs my manual. I'm a hell of a driver in a stick and usually (not always) pull on auto's in my manuals on 40-50 rolls

People who possess the driver mod, like you and me, do like to say stuff like that. But the fact is, even super fast manual no-lift-shifts are ON/OFF/ON (acceleration wise), take at least 300-500 milliseconds which makes the weight transfer to the front and then back again etc. and it's all of those factors that make the difference. The A10, and the A8 in the Z06/CTS-V, and the 8 speeds in the Hellcats etc. all shift WELL under 150 milliseconds, there's absolutely ZERO momentum lost, especially in the A10 at speed. That's the difference. I was an all manual guy up until this year when I bought two autos (C7Z and ZL1), and I still like manuals more for the fun/freedom to rev/blip downshifts that are still louder and more pronounced than the A10/A8s. Put the Stig in a manual ZL1 and Joe Schmow in the A10, and the A10 wins every time. Not counting missed starts, jumps, etc. obviously.

If you watch videos of races with super fast manual drivers like the "Driver Mod" Viper on That Racing Channel, you can still see the front end come down and back up during pulls and even lower HP cars gain at that opportunity.

[hashtag]

Originally Posted by ninetres

Oh it would absolutely be a race on a 3m circuit on equal tire. I’m not advocating the base model would beat/tie it over 1 lap......but the tire upgrade would significantly improve the lap time of the base model car and the delta isn’t astronomical.

An SS1LE was 3.5s off the ZL1-1LE pace at MRLS. Add 190ish HP, and a bigger R-compound tire to the SS1LE and you tell me how much lap time you approximate that to be worth.

“Murder us” “not be a race” is blatant hyperbole.

In magazines I’m seeing between three and five second differences between the Camaro ZL1 & ZL1 1LE. Would be interesting to see the data With a Wheel/Tire Swap though.

[Richard0nee]

ZL1 10 speed at the ring: 7:29s
ZL1 1LE at the ring: 7:16s

That is a HUUUGGEEE difference right there but if you put just the sticky tires on the regular ZL1 I bet it would do 7:20s - 7:24s

[hashtag]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

ZL1 10 speed at the ring: 7:29s
ZL1 1LE at the ring: 7:16s

That is a HUUUGGEEE difference right there but if you put just the sticky tires on the regular ZL1 I bet it would do 7:20s - 7:24s

My data came from US tracks. That is a murdering!!

[1LE Red Dragon]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

People who possess the driver mod, like you and me, do like to say stuff like that. But the fact is, even super fast manual no-lift-shifts are ON/OFF/ON (acceleration wise), take at least 300-500 milliseconds which makes the weight transfer to the front and then back again etc. and it's all of those factors that make the difference. The A10, and the A8 in the Z06/CTS-V, and the 8 speeds in the Hellcats etc. all shift WELL under 150 milliseconds, there's absolutely ZERO momentum lost, especially in the A10 at speed. That's the difference. I was an all manual guy up until this year when I bought two autos (C7Z and ZL1), and I still like manuals more for the fun/freedom to rev/blip downshifts that are still louder and more pronounced than the A10/A8s. Put the Stig in a manual ZL1 and Joe Schmow in the A10, and the A10 wins every time. Not counting missed starts, jumps, etc. obviously.

If you watch videos of races with super fast manual drivers like the "Driver Mod" Viper on That Racing Channel, you can still see the front end come down and back up during pulls and even lower HP cars gain at that opportunity.

100% Accurate.. I raced my buddies 2017 Grandsport A8, headers, intake, ported MSD, ported heads, tuned well on E85. From 45mph roll he jumped out on me and I couldn't pull back on him. I lost most the ground in the 2nd to 3rd shift where his car never fell off. His car makes around 500- 510 whp and is 350 lbs lighter but the acceleration is similiar due to better gearing and faster shifting of the A8. His TCM is tuned well also.

I'd expect the A10 to beat a MT car from a roll for sure.

[ninetres]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

ZL1 10 speed at the ring: 7:29s
ZL1 1LE at the ring: 7:16s

That is a HUUUGGEEE difference right there but if you put just the sticky tires on the regular ZL1 I bet it would do 7:20s - 7:24s

Based on the data you shared, the ZL1 1LE puts 1sec/mile of race track on the base ZL1. Most US tracks are ~3 miles or less with a couple exceptions.

So on an average US track the ZL1 needs to find 3 seconds/lap. The tire upgrade would eat a large meaningful chunk off that. Tires are the most important part of the ZLE time delta. The DF on the stock Aero package isn’t some sort of F1 level gain, its 300ish lbs at 150mph. How many of you are cornering at 150mph? On Autoclub Roval maybe if you can drive and have massive balls.

Stiffer suspension and solid end links absolutely helps feel, and will make the car a bit more capable. But many skilled /professional drivers I know prefer a softer suspension.....especially if not on a truck slick tire. Makes high speed transitions more manageable when smooth.

What’s the fastest lap anyone has seen at Buttonwillow 13cw in a ZL1 or ZL1 1LE? I have seen a 56 I think in a base model.

[ZL1 1LE]

Originally Posted by ninetres

Based on the data you shared, the ZL1 1LE puts 1sec/mile of race track on the base ZL1. Most US tracks are ~3 miles or less with a couple exceptions.

So on an average US track the ZL1 needs to find 3 seconds/lap. The tire upgrade would eat a large meaningful chunk off that. Tires are the most important part of the ZLE time delta. The DF on the stock Aero package isn’t some sort of F1 level gain, its 300ish lbs at 150mph. How many of you are cornering at 150mph? On Autoclub Roval maybe if you can drive and have massive balls.

Stiffer suspension and solid end links absolutely helps feel, and will make the car a bit more capable. But many skilled /professional drivers I know prefer a softer suspension.....especially if not on a truck slick tire. Makes high speed transitions more manageable when smooth.

What’s the fastest lap anyone has seen at Buttonwillow 13cw in a ZL1 or ZL1 1LE? I have seen a 56 I think in a base model.

1:53:46 in a ZL1 1LE is the best time that I’m aware of at Buttonwillow.

[ninetres]

Originally Posted by ZL1 1LE

1:53:46 in a ZL1 1LE is the best time that I’m aware of at Buttonwillow.

I’ve seen a 55.X.

A 53 is cookin. Fairly stock on S3Rs? Any info on the lap or video?

[waterman]

This thread has drifted way of topic. With that said, I find myself compelled to chime in.

Obviously, R compound and DOTRs specifically GY 3Rs are capable of shaving lap times.

Yes an A10 will beat an M6 in a roll or the 1/4 mile. However, the twisties and the circuit are a totally different animal. Even the vaunted A10 has proven susceptible to overheating issues in a 20-30+ minute HPDE session. Both gear versions of the ZL1 have their attributes and faults. It comes down to a personal decision, that we as free citizens of a democratic Republic are entitled to choose and debate. Neither is right or wrong; it's what you want that matters. God bless the USA. I digress.

I believe that the predictable and consistent grip enhancing/handling capability of hard mounted DSSV is being discounted here. Red Bull dominated in the early part of this decade until all F1 teams made the switch to DSSV. 3 of 4 class winners at Le Mans over the last 2 years were on DSSV. In IMSA GTS, both Stevenson's and Black Dog's GT4.R Camaros are running DSSV (and kicking some serious a*s).

IMHO, hard mounted DSSV plays a big role in the performance dynamic of the ZLE. It ain't just tires.

Ask your doctor or pharmacist if DSSV is right for you.

[Sakudog]

My best Circuit of the America's LAP in my ZL1 A10 is a 2:27.4
mods = Eibach Springs, 1LE wheels/tires, SRF fluid and a track alignment

The fastest, non-Pro level driver time I've seen on a stock ZL1 1LE is 2:30.XX, most run 2:31-2:33s.

My car ran 2:30s on the 20" GY in totally stock trim!

In every PDR overlay, comparing my ZL1 A10 to a ZL1 1LE in stock trim, my car has +8-15mph at the end of all the straights than any stock M6 car I've seen, making a huge difference over the entire track. The A10 slingshots the car off APEX, it appears to be a monster advantage.

I believe Pro to Pro driver with my car setup and a stock 1LE setup, it would come down to the track configuration. The 1LE has some advantages for a Pro level driver, but most of those advantages become disadvantages with a journeyman driver on Track. (I've seen this first hand) My car is very very neutral at the limit and very easy to push to the absolute edge.

None of this makes the A10 a better car or choice, it's up to the individual and what they want, but for me, a Journeyman level driver, it has been a great driving experience. I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'd get a ZL1 A10 if it was offered.

If it helps, I wanted a 997.2 GT3 PDK, but after seeing the ZL1 A10 in Lightning Lap & MTOD, chatting with a particular very well known driver and GM Program manager, I went with the Camaro and I don't regret it one bit.

[Lethal Z]

LOL at all the comments from the Auto guys that think they can throw a set of better tires on their ZL1 and compete with a ZL1 1LE on the track.