[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by RacerX78

...
TLDR;
1. Is the SS 1LE a good daily, including in the rain and winter?
2. Can it do daily driver and track duties for 60k+ miles reliably?
3. Is the 2SS worth it for blind spot & parking sensors?

1. Yes, with winter tires, of course.
2. So far.
3. No, use your eyes and correctly adjust your mirrors.

Basically, you're asking if it can be your only car. That's a big Yes, it's incredible.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

That's fairly misleading, while you can see one-lane over in your blind-spot, you don't see what is happening around you to a much larger extent and as such, you lack more situational awareness when driving the camaro. I totally agree, adjust your SIDE mirrors CORRECTLY (so as to not show the rear of your vehicle), but that doesn't solve the visibility issues. The high sills, small rear window, lack of any visibility past the B pillar, fact that the mirrors are small and only show a "tunnel" within their range, all mean that you may not see that semi truck a few car lengths back in another lane, or that delivery truck over there, or that minivan, etc. It's the stuff you don't plan for that gets you, all of a sudden a deer jumps out in front of you, or a rock falls from the hillside or is just in the middle of the road coming around a turn, now for whatever reason, you have to swerve fast and maybe brake or accel, do you know what's around you and if you can actually do this? There's no time to "check" first, but you don't want to be creating a worse situation either. That's where the lack of visibility will get you, not in what you can "plan" for, like lane-changes, overtaking, etc., but in the unplanned stuff.

It's the price we pay for the looks, driving position, etc. People make a bigger deal about it than it needs to be, as if the perfect sports-car is an econo-box or something with upright seating, but the visibility is an issue and it's important to realize what you are getting into. Humans aren't perfect machines and they make errors, something that lacks visibility in this case will make you more prone to those errors, so it's something to be aware of.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is the best post on the visibility topic I have ever seen on these forums. I'm so tired of reading "adjust your mirrors correctly and you'll be fine" posts because that is just BS. Obviously it's best to adjust the mirrors properly on ANY car - that goes without saying. Maybe I'm old school, but I still turn around and look around me in addition to using the mirrors, in any car I'm driving.

I have been lusting for an SS 1LE for a couple years now, but the visibility is the single thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger already. I test drove two different SS Camaros, and didn't have any serious visibility issues during the test drives, but both drives probably totaled about 20 minutes. I never tried backing into parking spaces, judging the distance from a curb, driving on a multi-lane highway in heavy traffic, etc.

I still will probably end up with a 2SS 1LE, and hopefully soon, but like I said in another post - if there's another mainstream car with worse outward visibility, I'd like to know what it is.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by wjones14

... I'm so tired of reading "adjust your mirrors correctly and you'll be fine" posts because that is just BS. ..

I call BS on your call of BS.

If you're looking for a reason to not buy the car, by all means latch on to "the visibility". Yet, and here's the important part, you then go onto say:

Originally Posted by wjones

I test drove two different SS Camaros, and didn't have any serious visibility issues

Ok, so what exactly is the problem then? Are you trying to make the visibility a sticking point? You're letting strangers words override your own experience.

[RacerX78]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

For some level of perspective, I went from a 2016 2SS to a 2018 1SS 1LE. Some of the amenities are very nice on the 2SS but frankly, since the 2018 cars have Apple CarPlay and likely Android Auto, I don't miss many of the features that are lost on having a 1SS. On top of that, the 1LE has heads up display, as well. Essentially, you lose dual climate control, fancy interior lights, home link buttons, heated and cooled seats, heated steering wheel and auto adjusting mirrors.

Given that perspective, I don't miss any of that whatsoever given the sheer performance of the 1LE.

So have you not had any issues with parking without the sensors? I reverse in my spot whenever i park.

Originally Posted by Ryephile

1. Yes, with winter tires, of course.
2. So far.
3. No, use your eyes and correctly adjust your mirrors.

Basically, you're asking if it can be your only car. That's a big Yes, it's incredible.

LoL,

Thank fully it doesn't have to be. But its good to know it can.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I call BS on your call of BS.

If you're looking for a reason to not buy the car, by all means latch on to "the visibility". Yet, and here's the important part, you then go onto say:



Ok, so what exactly is the problem then? Are you trying to make the visibility a sticking point? You're letting strangers words override your own experience.

My first thought when I got in the car was that the windows were really small, and it was the worst outward visibility of any car I had ever experienced in 40+ years of driving. My test drives were 10 minutes each on two-lane roads with no traffic, so no merging or lane switching, and I was able to drive the cars without crashing. So in that sense, no issues.

The part I say is BS is when someone, a magazine reviewer, an actual owner, whoever, says the car has visibility issues, and then a horde of replies follow with "you adjust the mirrors and there's no issue." So I'm just saying that you should adjust the mirrors properly in ANY car. That was one of the first things I was taught when I did my first HPDE track event in 2007.

For what I want in a car, the pros outweigh the cons by A LOT when it comes to the 2SS 1LE. I love the car. But I'm not going to lie and say there are no cons. I've never personally been in a car with worse visibility. That's all. If you want to call BS on that, fine.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by wjones14

...For what I want in a car, the pros outweigh the cons by A LOT when it comes to the 2SS 1LE. I love the car. But I'm not going to lie and say there are no cons. I've never personally been in a car with worse visibility. That's all. If you want to call BS on that, fine.

I don't think anyone is claiming the visibility is as good as say an R53 MINI or an M-B W201, or hell, anything pre roof-crush with toothpick-thin pillars.

Go sit in a bunch of new SUV's and crossovers and see how bad "normal" visibility is in model year 2018. Just sayin'.

If you want to sit in your car, Camaro is great. If you want to sit on your car, a '23 Model T is a solid choice.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I don't think anyone is claiming the visibility is as good as say an R53 MINI or an M-B W201, or hell, anything pre roof-crush with toothpick-thin pillars.

Go sit in a bunch of new SUV's and crossovers and see how bad "normal" visibility is in model year 2018. Just sayin'.

If you want to sit in your car, Camaro is great. If you want to sit on your car, a '23 Model T is a solid choice.

I don't know about the '23, but the 1919 Model T did have great visibility. Not sure if those tires would cut it on the track though.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

That's fairly misleading, while you can see one-lane over in your blind-spot, you don't see what is happening around you to a much larger extent and as such, you lack more situational awareness when driving the camaro. I totally agree, adjust your SIDE mirrors CORRECTLY (so as to not show the rear of your vehicle), but that doesn't solve the visibility issues. The high sills, small rear window, lack of any visibility past the B pillar, fact that the mirrors are small and only show a "tunnel" within their range, all mean that you may not see that semi truck a few car lengths back in another lane, or that delivery truck over there, or that minivan, etc. It's the stuff you don't plan for that gets you, all of a sudden a deer jumps out in front of you, or a rock falls from the hillside or is just in the middle of the road coming around a turn, now for whatever reason, you have to swerve fast and maybe brake or accel, do you know what's around you and if you can actually do this? There's no time to "check" first, but you don't want to be creating a worse situation either. That's where the lack of visibility will get you, not in what you can "plan" for, like lane-changes, overtaking, etc., but in the unplanned stuff.

It's the price we pay for the looks, driving position, etc. People make a bigger deal about it than it needs to be, as if the perfect sports-car is an econo-box or something with upright seating, but the visibility is an issue and it's important to realize what you are getting into. Humans aren't perfect machines and they make errors, something that lacks visibility in this case will make you more prone to those errors, so it's something to be aware of.

Put a 2" spot mirror in the corner of the passenger side mirror and there is no blind spots at all.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

Put a 2" spot mirror in the corner of the passenger side mirror and there is no blind spots at all.

The whole part about situational awareness went right by you (probably passed in your blind spot).

[WhyUMad1LE]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

The whole part about situational awareness went right by you (probably passed in your blind spot).

A blind spot mirror will let you see two lanes over. They are excellent for "situational awareness", sucks you have to rely on a little yellow light instead.

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by RacerX78

So have you not had any issues with parking without the sensors? I reverse in my spot whenever i park.

No. It took a little bit of adjusting but, I didn't really rely on my sensors at all when I backed into things. I also reverse into my parking spots all the time.

[GuywithL86]

Imo the visibilty issue isn’t a safety concern, its just a drivig experience thing.

Having a huge expansive view is just a lot more fun, mclaren is famous for putting huge winshields in their cars and giving them great visibility. Not for safety but because driving a car in a video game, watching a movie, or anything else is a lot more emmersive when it’s taking up a huge percentage of your viewing area.

That being said, I don’t think there is a car on planet earth that has a better combination of track performance and DD driving. While it may not be as utilitarian as a wrx, it certainly is a way way better track car. The SS 1le is basically a full on race car that you don’t have to deal with the cage, extremely low ground clearance, unreliability, lack of amenities, cargo space, etc etc etc. The only cars that might even come close to the performance/DD friendly ratio are megabuck sedans, like the e63s, cts-v, panamera turbo, m5, etc etc

Also nobody sees more miles and abuse on these motors than the trucks, which is what I have. All indications point to them beig just as reliable as the Gen iv motors (LS)

The 8l90 also has an absurd torque rating far higher than the output of the lt1. It’s the same trans used in the lt4. They are extremely strong. They only seem to fail with factory defects.

[F1FTY]

Visibility can be issue at certain angles which are mitigated by paying attention and using the sensors in the 2SS. You can also drive the 1SS and learn it's size over time when backing into spots. The car grows on you.

If you're still on the fence after this amount of time and two test drives, you should probably just move on to another vehicle. No amount of internet posts is going to change that.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by F1FTY

Visibility can be issue at certain angles which are mitigated by paying attention and using the sensors in the 2SS. You can also drive the 1SS and learn it's size over time when backing into spots. The car grows on you.

If you're still on the fence after this amount of time and two test drives, you should probably just move on to another vehicle. No amount of internet posts is going to change that.

The 1SS comes with a great backup camera, so there really are zero issues backing into a parking spot. The camera works so well, I don't think the beeping sensors of the 2SS help all that much extra. Without the camera the sensors would be a much bigger help, but with the camera, they are redundant.