[titanfan]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

What GT500 ?

I have yet to hear anything official or even legitimately unofficial about a GT 500. So, where's this 740HP beast you have inside info on?

Sitting the the same development garage as the 6th Gen z/28 and ZL1.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

Sitting the the same development garage as the 6th Gen z/28 and ZL1.

True, we have yet to hear about a ZL1 or Z/28, however we have a pretty good idea of what engine will be in at least one of them, the FI version of the 6th Gen, and it will be the LT4 producing the already known 650HP.

It's much more probable to say GM will have a 650HP version, but saying the GT500 will have 740HP is based on what engine already in production at Ford?

I think it is safe to say they will come out with a GT500, I just think any HP rumors are completely baseless at this point in time - who knows, it could be 950HP, yes, that's it, the rumor i'm starting is that the next GT500 will have 950HP.

[Steezy]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

True, we have yet to hear about a ZL1 or Z/28, however we have a pretty good idea of what engine will be in at least one of them, the FI version of the 6th Gen, and it will be the LT4 producing the already known 650HP.

It's much more probable to say GM will have a 650HP version, but saying the GT500 will have 740HP is based on what engine already in production at Ford?

I think it is safe to say they will come out with a GT500, I just think any HP rumors are completely baseless at this point in time - who knows, it could be 950HP, yes, that's it, the rumor i'm starting is that the next GT500 will have 950HP.

True. It is just rumors but we know for sure Ford is making something. And if it does have a ton of hp then GM will have to worry about that. We know the Hellcat is not good on the track. It is for straight line performance. But if Ford comes out with a vehicle with hp around the same as the Hellcat, I think the Camaro will lose on the track against simply because it doesn't have enough hp. And Ford is picking up their game with these performance track veichles. I hope GM goes out of their way to make a ton of hp. It will be king on track and straight line.

[DenverTaco07]

Here you go, for 4 grand you can bring an LT4 up to 720HP

http://www.lingenfelter.com/engine-p...cid-lt4-720-hp

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by YoungGun1993

The Camaro ZXX will have the same highly-praised engine as the Corvette Z06 coming in at 650 HP. The Camaro will run circles around the 707 HP Hellcat at that point IN almost every metric. Now whether or not you're buying the car for actual performance or for the HP number will likely dictate your purchase.

ZXX, nice way to put it. Not sure about those circles. Some basic math:

Hellcat: 4469/707 = 6.32 lbs per HP (Manual)
Camaro ZXX: 5th gen weighs 4118-> 3,950(est.)/650 = 6.08 (Manual, conservative weight loss less than 200 pounds)

Edit: Oops, repost.

So theoretically the Chevy is a little faster but at that weight difference it is a drivers race in the 1/4 with both autos being faster than the manuals.

Then again the Hellcat is slightly underrated. So it may be closer than the above numbers. Maybe the Chevy will be underrated too! How about those tri-y manifolds losing power over the older design in the Stingray? Why did they bother?

On a road track the Hellcat is not far off the current ZL1. So no contest there.

Chevy ZXX > Dodge HC at the real track.

Isn't Internet racing fun?

The Ford rumors are very interesting. Ford has trademarked EcoBeast. Pretty cool name and equal to Hellcat. The rumor is that Ford strapped two turbos to the 5.0 Coyote. Woah! Even if the new GT500 is only rated at 700-, 800+ is a tune away. As it is GT500 mules have supposedly been witnessed running 10s already.

The LT4 is not in the same HP category as these two in the public eye. They want to see big HP numbers, not evaluate HP to weight ratios. As marketing, HP numbers get a lot of attention. I am sure Chevy is well aware of this. But then the HP war has to end somewhere. Chevy may take the high road, however sales may suffer. If the Ford GT500 HP rumor is true and it is announced before the CA6 ZXX with 650+- HP we will be able to buy the new ZXX at launch without ADM. Bingo! Then the Chevy faithful win. But ZXXs will linger on the lots.

Also do not underestimate the Chevy arsenal. The mid engine C8 ZR1 is rumored to be not far off and that one will be turbocharged. Also with DCT.

And another juicy rumor from Ford is that the V8 has reached its expiration date and that the 5.0 EcoBeast will be the last V8 from Ford. Notice the engine in the new Ford GT? So get ready for Top Dog Twin Turbo V6es. Have a look at the GTR if you are wondering about performance. I have witnessed a street driven GTR running high 8s at Atco. Also get ready for manuals to be replaced by DCT.

V6es, turbos, and DCTs. Time marches on and we win.

[Bhobbs]

The Hellcat is not what GM should be worried about. GM should be concerned with the next GT500.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

Not necessarily. What I've seen is the hellcat is about 4450 lbs according to motor trend when they tested it against the ZL1. So that is about 6.29 lbs per HP. If the ZL1 or Z28 whatever they call it comes with 640 hp At a weight of 3950 or so it will be at 6.1 lbs per HP

Very close between the 2 and will be a drivers race. And no doubt will slaughter it on the track.

U just said the same thing I did but slightly changed some figures. 640 hp and 3950 lbs wouldn't get it done in the 1/4. It would be too close. But that's possible as well. Hopefully they would give it the full 650 hp and keep the weight a bit lower.... Like I was saying. If they want to win at the strip...

[ULTRAZLS1]

The gt500 had 660 hp last gen. If it had a nice 8 speed auto would be running just as fast and consistent as the hellcat. Actually might be faster looking at power to weight. And that was last time...

I don't know why everyone cares about the fat cat.

When ford builds a proper gt500 it will blow everything out at the strip. We don't have an answer for a 700+ hp gt500. The fat cat is within reach because it is 4400 lbs. and poses no threat in any other category.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

U just said the same thing I did but slightly changed some figures. 640 hp and 3950 lbs wouldn't get it done in the 1/4. It would be too close. But that's possible as well. Hopefully they would give it the full 650 hp and keep the weight a bit lower.... Like I was saying. If they want to win at the strip...

I was just referencing what you said that it would have to be 3800 to match the power to weight ratio of the hellcat and that it wouldn't need to be that light to match it. Either way it will be a drivers race. Gonna get interesting

[Bhobbs]

GM shouldn't try to match existing cars. They should be trying to beat them in every way possible. They tried to match the GT500 and look what happened.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

I was just referencing what you said that it would have to be 3800 to match the power to weight ratio of the hellcat and that it wouldn't need to be that light to match it. Either way it will be a drivers race. Gonna get interesting

I was just going by 100 lb per 10 hp rule quick estimate. 650 hp + 60 hp = 710. Then 3800 to 4400 is 600 lbs.

If you look at the actual ratio like you did it still has an advantage at slightly less hp and more weight but not one I would be comfortable with. 650 and closer to 3800 would make me feel better.

But yes gonna be interesting

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GM shouldn't try to match existing cars. They should be trying to beat them in every way possible. They tried to match the GT500 and look what happened.

It would be nice if GM went out to beat the hellcat in every way. More HP, faster quarter mile etc. I just dont see them building a 700+ HP car. I would buy one for sure but looks like we will have to settle with ONLY 640-650hp.

[ParisTNDude]

Of my many years of buying and driving muscle cars of all sorts, I concede that I will most likely never own the fastest production car around. Here's what I enjoy doing:

Buy a late model used underdog, mod it to compete at or above the current model's performance level and never tell your opponent whether it's stock or not. Run it at the drag strip or road course and have fun with it and leave the other guy guessing.

[Sintmk]

IDK, I'm not going to say I'm much of a GM/Ford/Fiat diehard. The Camaro will be my first American in quite awhile. However, I think this is one of those old rivalries die hard scenarios.

IMO, ford isn't going to drop a motor with +700hp in anything other than the GT, doesn't make any sense to me to produce a race car, when you already sell a race car, and the Mustang chassis isn't going to compete with the current Vette lineup, with a GT500 est. pricing sitting right in that sweet spot.

The hellcat is a dog and pony show getting spread out over the Fiat lineup. Don't be surprised to see one in a RAM or a Jeep. It may have 700+hp, but it's not model specific, and while they may be classy looking vehicles, I haven't heard much word on what the upcoming versions of the charger/challenger will be like....regardless of the fact that Marchionne is planning on doing some wild things with company setup/direction.

As was previously mentioned, I think the GT500 and the Z28 should be close running companions. With neither company willing to venture too far into Vette/Porsche territory