[AngryAmish]

You know, something else just occured to me. Every year I hear about power outages in California because of people putting high demands on their electric infrastructure.

Imagine adding to the strain by using short range electric vehicles.

[ArcAngel]

That is something the GREENDOUCHES dont think about!!! Ya know as long as they can villanize Big Oil the conservatives and the Big 3 there happy! Just buy the bullshit the world will get fixed!

[Nickdago]

Amazing how some people believe they are so much smarter than the rest of us and in reality are so damn stupid. Makes you wonder at what point the educated lose thier wisdom and common sense and develop this greater than thou attitude.

[ArcAngel]

Nickdago who is so damn stupid??

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

Nickdago who is so damn stupid??

i think the article writer

[ArcAngel]

I hope SO LOL

[Zabo]

Arc, take a step back and look at your posts. I think your attitude there would have fueled those 'greendouches' for another 10 years saying 'you're part of the evil!'

Why not calmly undermine them by proving them wrong with facts that rip the proverbial heart out of their 'beloved' studies that 'prove them right'? Smug is the best way to go, lord knows that's how they operate and look what it did to you.

Just sayin'. No offense meant. Just take a chill pill man.

[ArcAngel]

Zabo you are partially right , but I will tell you this. We have a forever thread about this on GMInsidenews and to be honest, there are articles, graphs, charts, etc etc to disprove there craziness and they still bow at the alter of GREEN so that's why I get bothered they are brainwashed zombies. Logic and reasoning need not apply. They follow the prophet Al Gore in all is hypocrisy.

[bigralph]

Originally Posted by ArcAngel

The majority of Americans are brain washed drones!!! Go little sheep follow the slaughter

I been saying this everyday since the economy started going to hell.

[Thwick]

I'll first admit that i know nothing of the mechanics of the volt and its battery systems. BUT, couldnt they offer different battery configurations? i mean, they're offering the camaro with 3 engines, couldnt they let the customer choose what's optimal for them? from my understanding, they add more batteries for longer life. If you knew you were only going to go 20 miles per day, couldnt they offer a model with half the batteries? It would free up some weight, and make it more efficient, and would cost less.

or am i way off base here?

[GrnMchin]

I'm so tired of this hate, get informed look at who paid for the studies, who paid for the article to be printed, Look at both sides of the argument weed out the BS make an informed decision and stop jumping on the hate bandwagon. It's easy to do if your just following the masses, harder to stand up as the few and look at the positives if all you pay attention to is the negative. The Volt is the right direction for GM and I am looking forward to it. I just hope that the rest of America can wake up and start to take pride in the country even in hard times.

[toesuf94]

I actually have to thank Al Gore and a few of the supporting 'scientists' that back up his lies...they are Fellow Penn Staters, and due to their support of Mr. Gore and his Million Dollar Nobel Prize - I have stopped donating ANYTHING to the campus. Saving me hundreds of dollars a year! Gas money for the Escalade!

[Mr. Wyndham]

First of all, it's not a "plug in Hybrid". So already the study sucks. This car will be the first to get a rating of 100mpg or higher from the EPA. So.......

Second, GM jumped on this steaming pile of ---- quick with their own rebuttle.

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives....html#more-850

Our Real-World Learnings Differ From CMU Study
By Jon Lauckner
Vice President Global Program Management

This past weekend, I read some media reports about a study by Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) questioning the wisdom of vehicles like the Chevy Volt that offer more than a “token” level of gasoline-free driving. I’ve been deeply involved in the development of the Volt from the beginning, so I took some time to download and read the report to see what new insight the CMU study offered.

First of all, we appreciate CMU’s interest and efforts in furthering the research and knowledge about the future of electric vehicle transportation. Only by truly understanding the capabilities and benefits of plug-in electric vehicles will we be able to transition from vehicles primarily dependent on petroleum.

However, what we’ve learned during the development of the Chevy Volt differs from the study’s stated conclusion:

“The best choice of PHEV battery capacity depends critically on the distance that the vehicle will be driven between charges. Our results suggest that for urban driving conditions and frequent charges every 10 miles or less, a low-capacity PHEV sized with an AER (range) of about 7 miles would be a robust choice for minimizing gasoline consumption, cost and greenhouse gas emissions.” (pg. 22)

I’ll cut to the chase; for starters, the study’s endorsement of plug-in vehicles with only a “token” electric-only range (seven miles) overlooks the inconvenience of recharging for the vast majority of drivers (approx. 90 percent) with a daily commute that exceeds seven miles. I mean, honestly, how many customers are going to stop every seven miles and wait at least 30 minutes (if a car has a high-capacity charger like the Volt with the same level of electrical energy to match it) for their battery to be recharged? Without having done any market research, I’m guessing the answer is “very few”. And, if customers don’t recharge during the day, these “token” plug-ins will run primarily on gasoline. How is that consistent with reducing green house gas emissions and our dependence on petroleum?

At its core, the study’s conclusion is based on an incorrect assumption of the cost of battery packs. In the CMU study, the so-called “base case” used a Lithium-Ion battery cost of $1,000 per kWh ($16,000 for a 40 mile Volt pack) that was cited in earlier academic articles. The problem is this cost is many hundreds of dollars per kWh higher than the actual cost of the Volt pack today. Moreover, our battery team is already starting work on new concepts that will further decrease the cost of the Volt battery pack quite substantially in a second-generation Volt pack. Unfortunately, the impact of dramatically lower battery costs (to $250 per kWh) was treated only as a “sensitivity” in the CMU study when it probably should have been highlighted as THE critical element that would dramatically change the cost-effectiveness of plug-ins with greater electric-only range.

The study also failed to include incentives for customers and producers of plug-in vehicles that have already been legislated. In fact, the recently passed “American Recovery and Reinvestment Act” (HR1) reconfirmed customer incentives that were included in an earlier bill passed last year for vehicles with a grid rechargeable battery pack. The legislation provides a Federal Tax credit ranging from $2,500 for 4four kWh battery packs to a maximum of $7,500 for customers of full-scale commercial plug-in electric vehicles. So, the PHEV-7 (3kWh battery) advocated in the CMU study would receive “zero” tax credit, while a Chevy Volt (16 kWh battery) with 40 miles of electric range will receive the maximum Federal Tax credit of $7,500. The State of Michigan, where we plan to produce the Volt battery pack, has also legislated incentives for manufacturers of battery packs and cells. So, when more realistic battery costs and customer and producer incentives are included, the calculations (and conclusions?) in the CMU study should change very significantly.

The bottom line is there isn’t anything in this study that would change the decisions we made for the Chevy Volt. We think a plug-in offering 40 miles of gas- and emissions-free driving like the Volt is the sweet spot for the majority of customers because nearly 80 percent of drivers can drive their daily commute and return home for an overnight recharge that avoids inconvenience for them and additional daytime load on the electric grid.

Actually, as I read the conclusions of the study I had a feeling of déjà vu. Some years ago, GM didn’t introduce hybrid technology as quickly as we should have because it wasn’t considered “cost effective” at the time - and we aren’t going to make that mistake again. In fact, the more vehicles powered by the Voltec system we can put on the road, the faster we’ll see the costs for batteries, power electronics and electric drive motors come down due to economies of scale and innovation. This will lead to even greater adoption of plug-ins and a new way forward for our industry.

[camaro5]

Uhhh - Take some battery capacity out of the Volt, and make it a 20mi commuter rather than 40mi, or offer both versions.

Problem solved.