6th gen vs 2013 ZL1 - Page 2

Fraxum · 09-06-2015, 07:34 PM

OP I am in the same boat. I will be buying one or the other most likely. After spending some time in a 2015 Mustang GT, even though it is a big improvement, I still like the Camaro better. One thing the Mustang has all over the Camaro is better visibility. While you can get used to the Camaro, it still sucks.

Even if the CA6 SS gets close to the ZL1 in overall performance, I am hung up on the better value proposition of the ZL1. If you buy a used 2014 ZL1, which is about as much as a loaded CA6 SS, in two years the SS will be worth low $30Ks, the ZL1 will most likely be the price of a 2012 ZL1 today, or about $40K. So purely based on being a smart buy, the ZL1 no contest. Neither car is collectible. Both are and will be too common.

The only thing that might change my mind is the CA6 SS may be more fun to drive. It will be about 300+ pounds lighter, but being smaller the interior may feel cramped. The superchager whine of the ZL1 is it's own brand of fun, but it still is a bigger heavier car.

As far as track performance goes, who cares, very few people ever drive their cars even 8/10s on a road track. And if you do, you better know what you are doing. Learn in a Miata first. As long as the car feels good on the street.

As far as the drag strip goes, the CA6 SS may be close stock, but the ZL1 has much more potential without major mods.

Probably you can't go wrong either way.

OldJedi · 09-07-2015, 07:58 PM

Interesting dilemma, and a very tough choice. Having a 2012 ZL1 I'm slightly prejudiced but I will give my opinion. Both cars should be in the low 12's at the drag strip. Normally a ZL1 with mag ride would be a big advantage but with the SS having mag ride option eliminates that advantage. The SS with 300 pounds less weight and a better chassis should also be close to a ZL1 on the track but I'm not sure if it can make up for the ZL1's 120HP advantage. That still has to be seen. The SS will have a better interior and more tech advantages. The stock seats in the SS have a better contour but the ZL1 has suede inserts. The ZL1 is bulletproof !!!! The SS is unproven. The fifth gen. has a larger trunk than the sixth gen. The S/C whine and exhaust of the ZL1 is world class. The NPP with the LT1 sounds good but not ZL1 good. I know I have both. The SS should get 25+ MPG where the ZL1 rarely gets 20MPG on the road and 15MPG around town. With the ZL1, you know you are driving something special and it does everything very well. The SS is still an unknown. If you are going to buy a used ZL1, try to find a 2014 with Recaros, they make a BIG difference and might make your decision easier. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Fraxum · 09-08-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldJedi

The ZL1 is bulletproof !!!!

I almost said just that in my post. But a few ZL1s had to have the supercharger replaced as well as a few with noisy diffs. But to be fair a few C7s have had LT1 failures. The LT1 is not yet in the same reliability category as the L99/SL3/LSA engines. So reliability may be a bit of a wash. It is good to have a drive-train warranty!!

I do expect the CA6 to be a reliable car for most of us.

OldJedi · 09-10-2015, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I almost said just that in my post. But a few ZL1s had to have the supercharger replaced as well as a few with noisy diffs. But to be fair a few C7s have had LT1 failures. The LT1 is not yet in the same reliability category as the L99/SL3/LSA engines. So reliability may be a bit of a wash. It is good to have a drive-train warranty!!

I do expect the CA6 to be a reliable car for most of us.

You are right, although there were some individual S/C issues, the vast majority of the ZL1's and their CTS-V counterparts could be tortured all days at the drag strip or road track with very few problems. And then drive home in comfort. I am hoping the Gen 6 Camaro can continue with this legacy.

Bosse'sBoss · 09-30-2015, 06:15 AM

Very interesting subject, also I'm on the same purchasing situation. Performance wise the 6th generation Camaro SS will be similar or better in performance to the actual 1LE, maybe will have similar handling performance compared to the ZL1 because of the MRSC and also for it's weight saving advantage, but for sure the NA will not have the power of the actual Super Charged ZL1.

On other hand I have followed closely the new Stingray, and many owners are complaining about the new A8 transmission overheating and doing dangerous shifting, also C&D tested two different Stingrays that ended their tracking with mayor engine failures. That transmission and engine are the same ones that came out on the new Stingray. Probably a standard transmission on those new cars will be a safer bet until GM finds the bugs on its brand new A8 transmission and fix them.

Yes is a beautiful and very improved new Camaro design, but time will tell.

The actual ZL1 has bullet proof drivetrain, specially the '14-'15 that had their SC issue corrected.

Yes is a Very difficult purchasing choice.

SuperSound · 09-30-2015, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Very interesting subject, also I'm on the same purchasing situation. Performance wise the 6th generation Camaro SS will be similar or better in performance to the actual 1LE, maybe will have similar handling performance compared to the ZL1 because of the MRSC and also for it's weight saving advantage, but for sure the NA will not have the power of the actual Super Charged ZL1.

On other hand I have followed closely the new Stingray, and many owners are complaining about the new A8 transmission overheating and doing dangerous shifting, also C&D tested two different Stingrays that ended their tracking with mayor engine failures. That transmission and engine are the same ones that came out on the new Camaro. Probably a standard transmission on those new cars will be a safer bet until GM finds the bugs on its brand new A8 transmission and fix them.

Yes is a beautiful and very improved new Camaro design, but time will tell.

The actual ZL1 has bullet proof drivetrain, specially the '14-'15 that had their SC issue corrected.

Yes is a Very difficult purchasing choice.

The A8 overheat issues are due to the packaging in the C7. The 6th gen uses a completely different setup for the location of the trans and more importantly its cooler. From a design standpoint alone the 6th gen should work much better for cooling.

Also I believe both C&D cars were Z51 dry sump engines. The 6th gen LT1 is a wet sump and uses some new features like an oil separator. So they are not exactly the same.

Memphis43 · 09-30-2015, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperSound

The A8 overheat issues are due to the packaging in the C7. The 6th gen uses a completely different setup for the location of the trans and more importantly its cooler. From a design standpoint alone the 6th gen should work much better for cooling.

Also I believe both C&D cars were Z51 dry sump engines. The 6th gen LT1 is a wet sump and uses some new features like an oil separator. So they are not exactly the same.

That setup including the trans actually being hooked directly to the engine which is a big improvement.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bosse'sBoss · 09-30-2015, 09:04 PM

Thanks Guys, great comments! It's good to know about those great drivetrain improvements for the Camaro , I hope that also GM figures out on why the A8 was doing those dangerous shifts by itself , which was widely complained on Stingray's forum by their C7 owners. By the way '16 will be the 2nd. year of production of the new A8 transmission.

SuperSound · 09-30-2015, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Thanks Guys, great comments! It's good to know about those great drivetrain improvements for the Camaro , I hope that also GM figures out on why the A8 was doing those dangerous shifts by itself , which was widely complained on Stingray's forum by their C7 owners. By the way '16 will be the 2nd. year of production of the new A8 transmission.

Have a link to any of these threads? What exactly is dangerous shifting?

Bosse'sBoss · 09-30-2015, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Have a link to any of these threads? What exactly is dangerous shifting?

This is one of them:

Corvette forum-c7 general discussion-I'm beginning to think the A8 transmission is UNSAFE!!

Sorry did not know how to link it, just follow that path.

And found many postings related to the Stingray and Z06's engine and transmission overheating issues, mentioning that is not good for the track because after few laps overheated.

I really wish that GM finds a solution, my next sport car will be an automatic that will make my wife happy, and finally She will stop complaining about my sport car with a clutch pedal and std. transm. If it is a 6th.gen SS w/. 1LE option (hopefully with an improved A8) that will be great!!

Fraxum · 10-01-2015, 10:42 AM

Follow up. I bought a lightly used 2015 black M6 ZL1 with 3K miles, carbon, Recaros, and nav for just about the trade in price of the car.

All I can say is Wow! This is my third 5th gen including a twin turbo 1LE. The ZL1 is such a complete car and can be cushy or a beast. I will wait for a used 2017 (?) ZL1 to move up or just maybe keep the 2015 ZL1. It's that good. Gas mileage could be better but then it's a garage queen.

Bosse'sBoss · 10-01-2015, 07:43 PM

After looking at today's '15 MT Best driver's car (the Z06 D.N.F). Probably is a safer bet to go with a '14-'15 Camaro ZL1 or the 1LE or the great late Z28 if you can afford it.
Last year champ in MT was the Z28

ilirg · 10-01-2015, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

After looking at today's '15 MT Best driver's car (the Z06 D.N.F). Probably is a safer bet to go with a '14-'15 Camaro ZL1 or the 1LE or the great late Z28 if you can afford it.
Last year champ in MT was the Z28

You realize that the CTS-V has the same engine as the z06 and performed flawlessly right? A busted z06 is not a good indication of how the next ZL1 will be.

Bosse'sBoss · 10-17-2015, 11:28 AM

I compared the performance numbers of the '16 Camaro SS VS actual ZL1, based on MT, and this is what I found:

Quarter mile: ZL1 12.1 sec @ 117.4
'16 SS 12.4 sec @ 114.6

0-60 MPH ZL1 3.8 sec
'16 SS 4.0 sec

Brak. 60-0 ZL1 108 ft.
'16 SS 104 ft.

Lat. accel. Zl1 1.02 g
'16 SS 1.00 g

Fig. eight ZL1 23.9 sec. @ 0.83 g
'16 SS 24.1 sec. @ 0.85 g

Very interesting, the winner: the actual ZL1

(except on the braking distance), but it looks like very a very close battle. Both are great cars.

It would be great to see each one's lap times at the same track.

09-06-2015, 07:34 PM	#15
Fraxum Drives: a M6 LT1 ordered From Becky!!! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 7,520	OP I am in the same boat. I will be buying one or the other most likely. After spending some time in a 2015 Mustang GT, even though it is a big improvement, I still like the Camaro better. One thing the Mustang has all over the Camaro is better visibility. While you can get used to the Camaro, it still sucks. Even if the CA6 SS gets close to the ZL1 in overall performance, I am hung up on the better value proposition of the ZL1. If you buy a used 2014 ZL1, which is about as much as a loaded CA6 SS, in two years the SS will be worth low $30Ks, the ZL1 will most likely be the price of a 2012 ZL1 today, or about $40K. So purely based on being a smart buy, the ZL1 no contest. Neither car is collectible. Both are and will be too common. The only thing that might change my mind is the CA6 SS may be more fun to drive. It will be about 300+ pounds lighter, but being smaller the interior may feel cramped. The superchager whine of the ZL1 is it's own brand of fun, but it still is a bigger heavier car. As far as track performance goes, who cares, very few people ever drive their cars even 8/10s on a road track. And if you do, you better know what you are doing. Learn in a Miata first. As long as the car feels good on the street. As far as the drag strip goes, the CA6 SS may be close stock, but the ZL1 has much more potential without major mods. Probably you can't go wrong either way. __________________ "Democracy Dies in Darkness" My LT1 Keeper ..... ..... My Car Blog CarPlayList, a free App to build USB and Android Music drives.

09-07-2015, 07:58 PM	#16
OldJedi Use the Force Drives: 2015 Corvette Z51, 2018 Porsche GTS Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Davie, Fl. Posts: 3,862	Interesting dilemma, and a very tough choice. Having a 2012 ZL1 I'm slightly prejudiced but I will give my opinion. Both cars should be in the low 12's at the drag strip. Normally a ZL1 with mag ride would be a big advantage but with the SS having mag ride option eliminates that advantage. The SS with 300 pounds less weight and a better chassis should also be close to a ZL1 on the track but I'm not sure if it can make up for the ZL1's 120HP advantage. That still has to be seen. The SS will have a better interior and more tech advantages. The stock seats in the SS have a better contour but the ZL1 has suede inserts. The ZL1 is bulletproof !!!! The SS is unproven. The fifth gen. has a larger trunk than the sixth gen. The S/C whine and exhaust of the ZL1 is world class. The NPP with the LT1 sounds good but not ZL1 good. I know I have both. The SS should get 25+ MPG where the ZL1 rarely gets 20MPG on the road and 15MPG around town. With the ZL1, you know you are driving something special and it does everything very well. The SS is still an unknown. If you are going to buy a used ZL1, try to find a 2014 with Recaros, they make a BIG difference and might make your decision easier. Good luck with whatever you decide. __________________ Walk softly, carry a light saber and drive a ZL1!

09-30-2015, 06:15 AM	#19
Bosse'sBoss Drives: '16 Camaro SS 6 spd manual transm. Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: RGV Texas Posts: 1,465	Very interesting subject, also I'm on the same purchasing situation. Performance wise the 6th generation Camaro SS will be similar or better in performance to the actual 1LE, maybe will have similar handling performance compared to the ZL1 because of the MRSC and also for it's weight saving advantage, but for sure the NA will not have the power of the actual Super Charged ZL1. On other hand I have followed closely the new Stingray, and many owners are complaining about the new A8 transmission overheating and doing dangerous shifting, also C&D tested two different Stingrays that ended their tracking with mayor engine failures. That transmission and engine are the same ones that came out on the new Stingray. Probably a standard transmission on those new cars will be a safer bet until GM finds the bugs on its brand new A8 transmission and fix them. Yes is a beautiful and very improved new Camaro design, but time will tell. The actual ZL1 has bullet proof drivetrain, specially the '14-'15 that had their SC issue corrected. Yes is a Very difficult purchasing choice. Last edited by Bosse'sBoss; 10-29-2015 at 06:30 AM.

09-30-2015, 09:04 PM	#22
Bosse'sBoss Drives: '16 Camaro SS 6 spd manual transm. Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: RGV Texas Posts: 1,465	Thanks Guys, great comments! It's good to know about those great drivetrain improvements for the Camaro , I hope that also GM figures out on why the A8 was doing those dangerous shifts by itself , which was widely complained on Stingray's forum by their C7 owners. By the way '16 will be the 2nd. year of production of the new A8 transmission.

10-01-2015, 10:42 AM	#25
Fraxum Drives: a M6 LT1 ordered From Becky!!! Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 7,520	Follow up. I bought a lightly used 2015 black M6 ZL1 with 3K miles, carbon, Recaros, and nav for just about the trade in price of the car. All I can say is Wow! This is my third 5th gen including a twin turbo 1LE. The ZL1 is such a complete car and can be cushy or a beast. I will wait for a used 2017 (?) ZL1 to move up or just maybe keep the 2015 ZL1. It's that good. Gas mileage could be better but then it's a garage queen.

10-01-2015, 07:43 PM	#26
Bosse'sBoss Drives: '16 Camaro SS 6 spd manual transm. Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: RGV Texas Posts: 1,465	After looking at today's '15 MT Best driver's car (the Z06 D.N.F). Probably is a safer bet to go with a '14-'15 Camaro ZL1 or the 1LE or the great late Z28 if you can afford it. Last year champ in MT was the Z28

10-17-2015, 11:28 AM	#28
Bosse'sBoss Drives: '16 Camaro SS 6 spd manual transm. Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: RGV Texas Posts: 1,465	I compared the performance numbers of the '16 Camaro SS VS actual ZL1, based on MT, and this is what I found: Quarter mile: ZL1 12.1 sec @ 117.4 '16 SS 12.4 sec @ 114.6 0-60 MPH ZL1 3.8 sec '16 SS 4.0 sec Brak. 60-0 ZL1 108 ft. '16 SS 104 ft. Lat. accel. Zl1 1.02 g '16 SS 1.00 g Fig. eight ZL1 23.9 sec. @ 0.83 g '16 SS 24.1 sec. @ 0.85 g Very interesting, the winner: the actual ZL1 (except on the braking distance), but it looks like very a very close battle. Both are great cars. It would be great to see each one's lap times at the same track.

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