04-24-2024, 12:56 PM | #15 | |
Drives: 2022 1LT RS 2.0t/6spd Join Date: Mar 2022
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04-24-2024, 02:33 PM | #16 |
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I don’t give two hoots about the environment or cost - I miss R-12. I’d pay $350/lb right now if it was possible to put it in all my cars.
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04-24-2024, 02:37 PM | #17 |
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I haven't noticed an inability for any modern AC system in a car to keep up and adequately cool the interior, whether it was designed for R134a or 1234yf.
Some Japanese and German cars with AC in the early 90's seemed to struggle to keep things cool, but I think the AC units were just undersized. Not built for American expectations of what AC should do. What really sucks is straight R12 to R134a conversions in a system designed for R12 without also properly sizing the orifice tube. That nets really cruddy results sometimes and it's better to stick with R12 if you can get it. |
04-24-2024, 10:01 PM | #18 |
Drives: 2016 Camaro SS 2017 Yukon Denali Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Colorado
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heat pump: a machine that generates heat transfer from cold to hot.
Reversibility does not define a heat pump. Heat pumps do not produce heat they move it. |
04-24-2024, 11:26 PM | #19 | |
Drives: 2022 1LT RS 2.0t/6spd Join Date: Mar 2022
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Conventional compressor/condenser/evaporator based A/C doesn't cool by "moving" heat from the conditioned volume and as such the process can't be reversed. Last edited by Alan47717; 04-24-2024 at 11:55 PM. |
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04-25-2024, 08:43 AM | #20 | |
Drives: 2024 2SS 6MT Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Current: 2024 Camaro 2SS M6, Red Hot, Ceramic White interior, Dual Mode Exhaust, Magnetic Ride Control
Old & Sold: 2019 Camaro 1LT M6, RaceChip GTS, RaceChip XLR, ZZP Catted downpipe, JacFab Boost-o-lator, K&N drop-in air filter, ZZP Intake Tube, PTP turbo blanket, NGK 6510s gapped at 0.022" Motorcycle enthusiast |
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04-25-2024, 08:46 AM | #21 |
Drives: 2024 2SS 6MT Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Correct. Just like any new technology brought to the market (especially under a patent), it is initially more expensive that most other options. As patents expire, competition will take place and prices will fall. The first company to create and patent it gets the advantage of charging more - recovering R&D costs and enjoying the benefits of being the first to figure it out. After some time, patents expire and competition moves in. It's the great American way.
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Current: 2024 Camaro 2SS M6, Red Hot, Ceramic White interior, Dual Mode Exhaust, Magnetic Ride Control
Old & Sold: 2019 Camaro 1LT M6, RaceChip GTS, RaceChip XLR, ZZP Catted downpipe, JacFab Boost-o-lator, K&N drop-in air filter, ZZP Intake Tube, PTP turbo blanket, NGK 6510s gapped at 0.022" Motorcycle enthusiast |
04-25-2024, 08:55 AM | #22 |
Drives: 2024 2SS 6MT Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Buffalo, NY
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If you're in an accident that causes a fire, there are far more dangerous things in your car than 1234yf.
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Current: 2024 Camaro 2SS M6, Red Hot, Ceramic White interior, Dual Mode Exhaust, Magnetic Ride Control
Old & Sold: 2019 Camaro 1LT M6, RaceChip GTS, RaceChip XLR, ZZP Catted downpipe, JacFab Boost-o-lator, K&N drop-in air filter, ZZP Intake Tube, PTP turbo blanket, NGK 6510s gapped at 0.022" Motorcycle enthusiast |
04-25-2024, 11:17 AM | #23 |
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I'm trying to find where the EPA mandates a different type of refrigerant for cars, EVERY YEAR.
Last I checked, R134a started being used widely in place of R12 around 1993/1994. That was over 2 decades of use before vehicle started phasing in 1234yf around 2015/2016. We use R410a in the heat pump at our house. EPA never made us change anything, and it's been in service for almost 20 years. |
04-25-2024, 11:38 AM | #24 | |
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Andreas Kornath, an inorganic chemistry professor at Munich University, describes hydrofluoric acid is an insidious poison, “even a palm-sized wetting of the skin can be fatal within minutes if you do not take counter-measures” Carbonyl fluoride is also released, structurally similar to Phosgene, the nerve agent used in WW1. We banned it from wartime use but it is ok for our car's ac? Please tell me what other components of a vehicle can produce more deadly fumes. Environmentalists/EPA are f***ing crazy. But not to worry. We are more likely to have our faces blown off by the shrapnel from the exploding ARC airbag inflators in our Camaros. Last edited by wavsine; 04-25-2024 at 11:49 AM. |
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04-25-2024, 12:19 PM | #25 | |
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Are people still worried about burning alive with 15 gallons of highly explosive gasoline on board, or the toxic products it creates when it combusts and consumes a vehicle? Just a random question, no link to 1234yf obviously. |
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04-25-2024, 12:54 PM | #26 | |
Drives: 2024 2SS 6MT Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Light the seat that you sit on on fire and breathe it in. You'd be amazed of the things in your car that can kill you. The concern over 1234yf is alarmist nonsense.
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Old & Sold: 2019 Camaro 1LT M6, RaceChip GTS, RaceChip XLR, ZZP Catted downpipe, JacFab Boost-o-lator, K&N drop-in air filter, ZZP Intake Tube, PTP turbo blanket, NGK 6510s gapped at 0.022" Motorcycle enthusiast |
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04-25-2024, 02:19 PM | #27 | |
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More likely is a puncture and release of 1234yf under pressure into the atmosphere before a fire starts. Almost 100% probability that the AC system will be opened in a heavy front end collision that compromises the condenser. The refrigerant should be out before a fire starts, and that speaks to the non-existent data on deaths due to refrigerant in a collision. And yeah, just about every byproduct of combustion in a car is extremely toxic in a vehicle fire, including the combustion of gasoline itself. |
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04-26-2024, 07:32 AM | #28 | |
Drives: 2024 2SS 6MT Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
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Current: 2024 Camaro 2SS M6, Red Hot, Ceramic White interior, Dual Mode Exhaust, Magnetic Ride Control
Old & Sold: 2019 Camaro 1LT M6, RaceChip GTS, RaceChip XLR, ZZP Catted downpipe, JacFab Boost-o-lator, K&N drop-in air filter, ZZP Intake Tube, PTP turbo blanket, NGK 6510s gapped at 0.022" Motorcycle enthusiast |
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