[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

With a tune, I’m sure you are right. But not from GM was my point. Which was crazy IMO.

Agree

Originally Posted by radz28

Having seen stock cam cars get out to around 800-WHP, with just near-full-E', would a JMS hang in there, if there was no ambition, later, to go any further with mods? I literally mean no changes beyond intake, 2650 (with the stock 90mm pulley for around 15-16-psi), and literally nothing else on the motor.

no I doubt it.

[Future1LE]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

You will want to upgrade the low side with either an aux pump or bigger tank pumps(dual/triple) for full E85.

Thanks for your input there as I was thinking of the same thing. A lot of the video I watch Matt tune these port injection, most of the zl1 seem to have some kind of intank pump upgrade. I was curious if I could get away with full E85 on a dsx aux pump and stock intank pump.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by Future1LE

Thanks for your input there as I was thinking of the same thing. A lot of the video I watch Matt tune these port injection, most of the zl1 seem to have some kind of intank pump upgrade. I was curious if I could get away with full E85 on a dsx aux pump and stock intank pump.

Only intank I have is oem.

I originally ran a aux dsx when I was running 9.17 lower and the oem blower. It made sense for then to swap out the dsx with a larger pump and supporting things fuel lines pressure regulator and so on.

The difference is going to be do you use the aux to feed both the DI and the port or just the port.

I got different stories from shops I used, crawford has it setup to feed both the hpfp and the port system where Matt has it setup just on the port side. Both shops said there would be transition problems if not ran there each way.

What's the consensus do? And why?

[Future1LE]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

Only intank I have is oem.

I originally ran a aux dsx when I was running 9.17 lower and the oem blower. It made sense for then to swap out the dsx with a larger pump and supporting things fuel lines pressure regulator and so on.

The difference is going to be do you use the aux to feed both the DI and the port or just the port.

I got different stories from shops I used, crawford has it setup to feed both the hpfp and the port system where Matt has it setup just on the port side. Both shops said there would be transition problems if not ran there each way.

What's the consensus do? And why?

Interesting I did not know they can be or needed to be routed to feed separately. Guess I need to go back and do more research. Thanks for the input.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Future1LE

Thanks for your input there as I was thinking of the same thing. A lot of the video I watch Matt tune these port injection, most of the zl1 seem to have some kind of intank pump upgrade. I was curious if I could get away with full E85 on a dsx aux pump and stock intank pump.

That should be fine. I wouldn't use dsx unless you get a bulkhead fitting which is included in the cordes setup.

[Future1LE]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

That should be fine. I wouldn't use dsx unless you get a bulkhead fitting which is included in the cordes setup.

Its already installed. So far no leak, but I agree a bulkhead fitting would been better.

[NickeyMatt1LE]

This car has a stock ZL1 in-tank with a DSX aux pump. We feed both the port rails and the hpfp with the same stock feed line. Fuel runs through the port rails first then to the hpfp. We have also done cars with a Fore Innovations triple pump return style system. We plumb that a little different, but same concept where both the rails and hpfp are fed from the same source. The idea being fuel is always flowing through the port rails even when the port injectors aren't firing. This ensures no air gets trapped in the rails.

The Too High PSI system uses maf frequency as the primary reference for fueling. You can set it up to come on at any point in the maf curve. It does require an abrupt drop in the maf curve of the stock ecm with a subsequent abrupt increase in the maf curve of the port controller. The idea behind this is when the port injectors turn on, they need to come on at the bottom of their linear range. About 1 ms. Then increase while the DI injectors hold a steady pw out to the top of the rev range. I reduce the power enrichment to just above 1.00 and drop the maf curve in the stock ecm. Then when the port injectors turn on, it's basically just like PE kicks in and the transition is seamless. Of course, dropping the maf curve reduces the calculated airmass and subsequently the calculated engine and axle torque. This requires some extra editing of the virtual torque model. Especially important in auto cars for shift and tcc pressures.

[laynlo15]

Originally Posted by NickeyMatt1LE

This car has a stock ZL1 in-tank with a DSX aux pump. We feed both the port rails and the hpfp with the same stock feed line. Fuel runs through the port rails first then to the hpfp. We have also done cars with a Fore Innovations triple pump return style system. We plumb that a little different, but same concept where both the rails and hpfp are fed from the same source. The idea being fuel is always flowing through the port rails even when the port injectors aren't firing. This ensures no air gets trapped in the rails.

The Too High PSI system uses maf frequency as the primary reference for fueling. You can set it up to come on at any point in the maf curve. It does require an abrupt drop in the maf curve of the stock ecm with a subsequent abrupt increase in the maf curve of the port controller. The idea behind this is when the port injectors turn on, they need to come on at the bottom of their linear range. About 1 ms. Then increase while the DI injectors hold a steady pw out to the top of the rev range. I reduce the power enrichment to just above 1.00 and drop the maf curve in the stock ecm. Then when the port injectors turn on, it's basically just like PE kicks in and the transition is seamless. Of course, dropping the maf curve reduces the calculated airmass and subsequently the calculated engine and axle torque. This requires some extra editing of the virtual torque model. Especially important in auto cars for shift and tcc pressures.

I see how two great minds work between you and Mike. Keep your phone line open when we get the new TCM, gonna try and get this thing in the 9.60s or maybe 9.50s after we get the TCM, we'll also be doing some kind of low side pump or pumps to make sure we never run out of fuel. We are pushing this one pretty hard and so far no issues. I wanna get the A10 tuned and then run it before we do the low side, just want to see how controlling the torque management really works in picking up some Et. Most I've talked to that unlocked said they picked up 1.5 to 3 tenths depending how much torque management they have taken out of the tune, that of course needs to be safe, not wanting to replace the trans just to go faster.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by NickeyMatt1LE

This car has a stock ZL1 in-tank with a DSX aux pump. We feed both the port rails and the hpfp with the same stock feed line. Fuel runs through the port rails first then to the hpfp. We have also done cars with a Fore Innovations triple pump return style system. We plumb that a little different, but same concept where both the rails and hpfp are fed from the same source. The idea being fuel is always flowing through the port rails even when the port injectors aren't firing. This ensures no air gets trapped in the rails.

The Too High PSI system uses maf frequency as the primary reference for fueling. You can set it up to come on at any point in the maf curve. It does require an abrupt drop in the maf curve of the stock ecm with a subsequent abrupt increase in the maf curve of the port controller. The idea behind this is when the port injectors turn on, they need to come on at the bottom of their linear range. About 1 ms. Then increase while the DI injectors hold a steady pw out to the top of the rev range. I reduce the power enrichment to just above 1.00 and drop the maf curve in the stock ecm. Then when the port injectors turn on, it's basically just like PE kicks in and the transition is seamless. Of course, dropping the maf curve reduces the calculated airmass and subsequently the calculated engine and axle torque. This requires some extra editing of the virtual torque model. Especially important in auto cars for shift and tcc pressures.

I assume you have to increase the torque model in areas so the trans will shift with proper pressure and not slip?

[EDFHOBBIES]

So just taps off the maf like the c8 guys do? You use speed density and maf mode on the stock ecu?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

So just taps off the maf like the c8 guys do? You use speed density and maf mode on the stock ecu?

Mike posted videos on the set-up of the controller (among other relevant ones), if you wanna have a look on his channel

It's pretty much complete in it's instruction, for the most part. I think, even I could understand how to do it, lol... With his comments/threads/vidoes, and Greg's comments/threads/pics', it seems like pretty much all the instruction is there to do this.
Mike also includes a downloadable MAF calculator on his webpage for the product, and some tips for about where to start. This controller seems to have the ability to do more than what Mike's port system needs, but it seems pretty easy/complete in how it integrates. Sure - a Holley would dominate this product, but for something like this port system - it looks like it's perfectly fine. It collects CANBUS information from the OEM ECM, so it seems well integrated for these purposes. It has pretty much all the connections necessary to tap into the OEM-side. You have to sort the fueling out (which seems pretty specific in the way it needs to be run with the OEM DI), but he's gone over that, too.

If I recall - it plugs in-line (like a C8 I believe), and you don't have to turn off SD or the MAF. You download the software, and go. You can run blended, like stock. You just tell the new controller what MAF frequency (switching point) to come in at (using the download calculator and new curve), and make the usual injector calibration and typical-tuning-type stuff. You can see, the curve, in the ECM where the port' comes in, and the MAF scale backs-off, so it all seems to make sense. You make these changes, and start polishing the tune with some hits.

I don't know more about this system than what's been posted, nor from what's on Mike's (and Greg's threads - and THANKS!!!) site. I don't have experience with it, nor any other controller (or any part of this kind of project) and fuel system. I feel like I understand most of what's going on, and certainly what Mike (and others, like Greg) have shared, so take what I'm saying with that grain of salt. If feel like I'm close enough without coming off like I'm posting a tutorial (because I'm not). It seems like, though, unless you're trying to get more use out of a controller (like the upper-end Holleys, with traction control, and all that), this controller is perfectly fine for this port sytem. This is definitely the way I'd like to go.

I'd imagine you'd have to play with the E'-tables in the VTTs. I suspect you could add another 10-15% to the upper airmass (1000-1800 mg's/kPa from where it seems like I would be at from my scans at 6000-hz) for the tranny. If you're still on the OEM blower, maybe this isn't necessary, but that's a good question. Unless you get into the TCM, I don't know how else to compensate for lowering the MAF in the port-range. You know I'm certainly nothing close to an expert though.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by radz28

Mike posted videos on the set-up of the controller (among other relevant ones), if you wanna have a look on his channel

It's pretty much complete in it's instruction, for the most part. I think, even I could understand how to do it, lol... With his comments/threads/vidoes, and Greg's comments/threads/pics', it seems like pretty much all the instruction is there to do this.
Mike also includes a downloadable MAF calculator on his webpage for the product, and some tips for about where to start. This controller seems to have the ability to do more than what Mike's port system needs, but it seems pretty easy/complete in how it integrates. Sure - a Holley would dominate this product, but for something like this port system - it looks like it's perfectly fine. It collects CANBUS information from the OEM ECM, so it seems well integrated for these purposes. It has pretty much all the connections necessary to tap into the OEM-side. You have to sort the fueling out (which seems pretty specific in the way it needs to be run with the OEM DI), but he's gone over that, too.

If I recall - it plugs in-line (like a C8 I believe), and you don't have to turn off SD or the MAF. You download the software, and go. You can run blended, like stock. You just tell the new controller what MAF frequency (switching point) to come in at (using the download calculator and new curve), and make the usual injector calibration and typical-tuning-type stuff. You can see, the curve, in the ECM where the port' comes in, and the MAF scale backs-off, so it all seems to make sense. You make these changes, and start polishing the tune with some hits.

I don't know more about this system than what's been posted, nor from what's on Mike's (and Greg's threads - and THANKS!!!) site. I don't have experience with it, nor any other controller (or any part of this kind of project) and fuel system. I feel like I understand most of what's going on, and certainly what Mike (and others, like Greg) have shared, so take what I'm saying with that grain of salt. If feel like I'm close enough without coming off like I'm posting a tutorial (because I'm not). It seems like, though, unless you're trying to get more use out of a controller (like the upper-end Holleys, with traction control, and all that), this controller is perfectly fine for this port sytem. This is definitely the way I'd like to go.

I'd imagine you'd have to play with the E'-tables in the VTTs. I suspect you could add another 10-15% to the upper airmass (1000-1800 mg's/kPa from where it seems like I would be at from my scans at 6000-hz) for the tranny. If you're still on the OEM blower, maybe this isn't necessary, but that's a good question. Unless you get into the TCM, I don't know how else to compensate for lowering the MAF in the port-range. You know I'm certainly nothing close to an expert though.

Thanks for the info... video I'll ck it out


I'm no tuner but understand how things work. Acceleration is one thing but on and off the throttle how much throttle is given Is it seamless or is there sometimes little hiccups in how the car drivers.

I could be all in it 4th then someone slows me down then I hit brakes hard then in it again in milliseconds is there any hiccups ever or is it flawless?

Or sometimes I'll egg someone on pull up to them in 3rd and hit off hit off hit off some of these driving habits mess with the controllers?

As I mentioned hard Acceleration smooth Acceleration deacceleration are easy. But quick throttle changes back n forth pose any kind of stumbling or hickups?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

Thanks for the info... video I'll ck it out

I'm no tuner but understand how things work. Acceleration is one thing but on and off the throttle how much throttle is given Is it seamless or is there sometimes little hiccups in how the car drivers.

I could be all in it 4th then someone slows me down then I hit brakes hard then in it again in milliseconds is there any hiccups ever or is it flawless?

Or sometimes I'll egg someone on pull up to them in 3rd and hit off hit off hit off some of these driving habits mess with the controllers?

As I mentioned hard Acceleration smooth Acceleration deacceleration are easy. But quick throttle changes back n forth pose any kind of stumbling or hickups?

Hopefully Nickey' has some comments, but if not, I'd also check-out Greg's (laynlo15) videos (in his port-threads), because I think he's made some comments on what it sounds like you're asking about. I think I remember you already have used the port-option on your blower (assuming this is for the ZLE), so it seems to me you're thinking about the controller itself.

If so - I think you'll get some more input to these questions among Greg's threads. It seemed like after the calibrating was done, there weren't hiccups, and nearly as flawless as one could expect. I'm sure he'd be happy to comment if you asked him. If I knew better, I'd comment.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by radz28

Hopefully Nickey' has some comments, but if not, I'd also check-out Greg's (laynlo15) videos (in his port-threads), because I think he's made some comments on what it sounds like you're asking about. I think I remember you already have used the port-option on your blower (assuming this is for the ZLE), so it seems to me you're thinking about the controller itself.

If so - I think you'll get some more input to these questions among Greg's threads. It seemed like after the calibrating was done, there weren't hiccups, and nearly as flawless as one could expect. I'm sure he'd be happy to comment if you asked him. If I knew better, I'd comment.

Yes I have port and doing a different type tune now. No troubles except the quick responses to throttle on and off or just cruising at 4000 rpm the mashing letting off then mashing it again it will hesitate or bog.

Normal driving normal accel hard accell no problems just occasionally the stumble like the maf or map can't keep up with the throttle responses as fast.