03-16-2024, 10:30 PM | #15 | |
Drives: broken Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Posts: 198
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Quote:
Pic below is of my turbo (no pics when I did my 1LE), but the 1LE basically looks the same and it works the same way. See all the extra space around the top bolt? It's being pushed inward in the photo, so you can see the free space on the near side of the bolt. When tightened, there will be some space between the edge of the nut and the witness mark on the strut (left side in photo). That's where the extra camber is.
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clyde
Team WTF?! what are you gonna do? :dunno: |
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03-21-2024, 11:04 AM | #16 | |
Drives: 2019 Camaro Z-28 Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,486
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PSI
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I didnt really believe that myself intially but I tried it and it does work.
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2019 SS 1LE BIG NA A10 Eagles Canyon Raceway 2.7 CCW Below https://youtu.be/c9M5UHDftcA 4-15-23 at SCCA TT U1 Class MEGA Thread on THIS car: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602092 Retired Cars BELOW: 1973 Camaro, 1969 Camaro, 1969 Camaro SS RS 2010 Camaro SS with 1000HP F1R, 2019 ZL1 1LE A10 |
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03-21-2024, 12:24 PM | #17 |
Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,004
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That makes sense if the tire has 0 camber but with significant negative front camber I believe more pressure reduces the overall contact patch by lifting the outside half of the tire away from the pavement more causing more loading/weight/heat/wear on the inside.
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03-21-2024, 01:28 PM | #18 |
Drives: 23 ZL1 A10 Rapid Blue Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: MO
Posts: 2,086
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NVM
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03-21-2024, 04:39 PM | #19 | |
Drives: 2019 Camaro Z-28 Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,486
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Quote:
WITH NO OTHER Changes, I ran 38PSI and got close to 20K miles on THAT set. So we can talk about theory all day long but in reality more pressure worked for me and I did that following the advice of ADAM at DOGHOUSE Performance at Motorsports Ranch track in Cresson Texas. He convinced me against my will that we could run track alignment specs on the street and fare pretty well as far as premature wear goes as long as TOE IN TOE OUT figures were not too aggressive (more towards NEUTRAL). And ANOTHER thing ADAM told me which I thought was BS as well relates the the relative height of the REAR END. Since I have adjustible coils I toyed with the idea that lowering the car an inch or so in the back would help hook up the rear end a little better. Adam explained to me that just the opposite was true and he was right. Our cars like a downward rake towards the front of the car and if you try to level that out handling will suffer.
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2019 SS 1LE BIG NA A10 Eagles Canyon Raceway 2.7 CCW Below https://youtu.be/c9M5UHDftcA 4-15-23 at SCCA TT U1 Class MEGA Thread on THIS car: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602092 Retired Cars BELOW: 1973 Camaro, 1969 Camaro, 1969 Camaro SS RS 2010 Camaro SS with 1000HP F1R, 2019 ZL1 1LE A10 |
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03-21-2024, 05:53 PM | #20 | |
Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,004
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Quote:
As I mentioned previously, first I tried higher pressure than recommended on the door sticker and corded the inside front edges prematurely while on a long highway trip at -2.8 front camber with 0 front toe. Since then I changed to running lower pressure than recommended on the door sticker on the street and have not had such premature inside cording even though I did over 2k highway miles driving between different tracks on each of the last 2 sets of tires (in addition to driving on the same tires on track). I was using Goodyear Supercar 3 tires rather than your PS4S. Maybe stiffer sidewalls on the SC3 account for our different experiences. |
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03-21-2024, 06:22 PM | #21 | |
SoCal Camaro5 Race Team
Drives: 2021 Shadow Grey Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SO CAL
Posts: 14,321
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Quote:
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03-21-2024, 09:39 PM | #22 |
Drives: Chevrolet Camaro Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: AL
Posts: 52
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FYI there is really no need to knock the bolts out exposing the splines. I happened to have my wheels off so I took a short video to explain.
https://youtube.com/shorts/vYGwaJHCA...3xVP1ALXD-lDyC It will move to its min/max values without exposing them. Easiest thing to do is loosen both nuts, set the car back down with the wheels back on (on the alignment rack). The weight of the car will push the camber negative as far as it mechanically can go. Then use the threaded bolt hole at the top of the hub (install the GM adjustment bolt, or whatever M8? you have handy) to adjust back positive where you want it, tighten the nuts back down. Then set your toe and torque everything down. Hope that makes sense. |
03-21-2024, 10:48 PM | #23 | |
Drives: 2017 Blue Camaro 1SS 1LE with PDR Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,004
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Quote:
Also it is not necessary to lift the car before loosening the nuts if you have enough room underneath to do it like when the car is on an alignment rack. |
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03-22-2024, 07:10 AM | #24 | |
Drives: 2019 Camaro Z-28 Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,486
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Quote:
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2019 SS 1LE BIG NA A10 Eagles Canyon Raceway 2.7 CCW Below https://youtu.be/c9M5UHDftcA 4-15-23 at SCCA TT U1 Class MEGA Thread on THIS car: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602092 Retired Cars BELOW: 1973 Camaro, 1969 Camaro, 1969 Camaro SS RS 2010 Camaro SS with 1000HP F1R, 2019 ZL1 1LE A10 |
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03-22-2024, 10:48 AM | #25 |
SoCal Camaro5 Race Team
Drives: 2021 Shadow Grey Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2010
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Makes sense. And like with the old Re71R’s with their stiff sidewalls they could use less camber and around 31 hot psi. At least for autocross. For autocross MP4’s, falcons and nankangs seem to like 35/36 hot psi and the new re71rs like I run like 33/34 psi. Unless you are heavily modded with a lot of camber and wider tires etc, then lower psi can be used. All depends on setup, course etc.
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03-22-2024, 02:23 PM | #26 | ||
Drives: Chevrolet Camaro Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: AL
Posts: 52
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Quote:
The splines engage the aluminum knuckle, not the strut body/slots. You can free spin the splined OD of the bolts inside the strut slot with the knuckle removed. If there is any question (see video below). You are mechanically limited by the OD of these splines against the strut slots max L and R. The only other thing that might be mechanically limiting is if the contact face of your bolt may be hitting some deform or burr on the strut contact point. At the very least you may want to give it one small tap to create a tiny gap, but from what I've found on several Camaros so far - it's unnecessary. Definitely No need to expose the whole splined portion. https://youtube.com/shorts/co6n3Nhm6...lfKklLVTepvOzb I thought maybe I was mistaken, so I did this 3x times to confirm on an alignment rack this afternoon: 1. Loosened the nuts top/bottom, moved to max position, tightened down 2. Completely disengaged splines, moved to max position, tightened down Once the bolts are tightened back down, anything you may gain with the splines/taper exposed will be removed once reengaged/pulled in. Final results were exactly the same in both cases. Top: 22.38mm from the face of the knuckle (using gm adjustment bolt hole with micrometer) to the back of the strut. See pic. Then final camber using a Hunter laser alignment rack showed both methods were exactly the same. Quote:
I just prefer to final torque & mark mine with the wheels off. Last edited by Dirtbike; 03-22-2024 at 02:42 PM. |
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03-29-2024, 01:36 AM | #27 | |
Drives: 2022 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: WA
Posts: 33
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Quote:
In case if anyone else wonders, here is the answer I've got from a different shop: GM's instructions for track alignment require to drill out the holes. (Since it's factory instructions, it's fine for the street class!) And after that the fronts can get to -2.7 or -2.8 degrees camber, and the rears to something like -1.7 degrees. |
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03-29-2024, 03:08 PM | #28 | |
Drives: broken Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: DC
Posts: 198
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Quote:
I would also ask that you share that documentation before taking action so that you might have the opportunity to avail yourself of some higher quality input and advise than you may be getting from someone with a financial incentive to get you to authorize work that might be more expensive for you to undo later. While it's possible that those running Camaros in National events that are quite familiar with rules and documentation could have missed something authorizing that work, it would be surprising.
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clyde
Team WTF?! what are you gonna do? :dunno: |
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