[OneSlowV]

The GT350R cars for 119k are not stock both of them have a roots blower on them prolly would hurt a zl1 feelings lol

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The lighter, NA track specific car is supposed to win. Not the heavy grand touring version (there is a track focused ZL1 1LE after all).

See how the massive power to weight advantage worked for Ford in gen5.

I get your point but the GT500 was never intended to be a track car like the Z28 was, can we agree on that? Let me ask you this do you think that the huge power advantage that the present ZL1 has plays any role in it being faster than the GT350R? If a new 500 comes out sporting a hp advantage and wins H2H will this forum not cry about the power advantage?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Well with a 125 hp and 200 lbs of torque advantage the ZL1 better be faster. Even though it was barely faster in the H2H, same day same driver comparison. We will find out how good it is when there is a Mustang with similar power to challenge it.

Well the GT350R is lighter, has a sporty high revving fancy pants FPC engine compared to the ZL1's ages old archaic ancient technology truck engine, it has those light CF wheels, and it was made specifically for the track. So I think given all that it should have been able to overcome the power advantage of the heavy truck-ish ZL1. So I'm wondering why Ford couldn't build something on the ZL1's level for the same price.

Originally Posted by newmoon

I get your point but the GT500 was never intended to be a track car like the Z28 was, can we agree on that? Let me ask you this do you think that the huge power advantage that the present ZL1 has plays any role in it being faster than the GT350R? If a new 500 comes out sporting a hp advantage and wins H2H will this forum not cry about the power advantage?

No. We won't "cry". As much as you'd like to see that it just ain't gonna happen. All of us, every single last one of us, expects the GT500 to be faster. We've all been saying that for over a year. So when it does, you can do your little showboat song and dance and try to rub it in. But none of us will care. Because for starters, it will cost more money than the ZL1, carry a $20K-$50K surcharge on it, and nobody who plans to come over here bragging about it will be able to afford it anyway IF they can even get an allocation. Plus it still does not take away from the fact that the ZL1 is an absolute monster the likes of which took Ford several years to compete against. And if it's THAT badass, then I'll buy one anyway so...

On the other hand, after all this bullshit with Ford and the release date on the GT500, you better hope and pray to God that it does outperform the ZL1 in EVERY aspect AND comes in at the same price without markups. Because if even one of those is off, then it will be a complete failure in my book. So don't do your victory dance just yet skippy.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well the GT350R is lighter, has a sporty high revving fancy pants FPC engine compared to the ZL1's ages old archaic ancient technology truck engine, it has those light CF wheels, and it was made specifically for the track. So I think given all that it should have been able to overcome the power advantage of the heavy truck-ish ZL1. So I'm wondering why Ford couldn't build something on the ZL1's level for the same price.

No. We won't "cry". As much as you'd like to see that it just ain't gonna happen. All of us, every single last one of us, expects the GT500 to be faster. We've all been saying that for over a year. So when it does, you can do your little showboat song and dance and try to rub it in. But none of us will care. Because for starters, it will cost more money than the ZL1, carry a $20K-$50K surcharge on it, and nobody who plans to come over here bragging about it will be able to afford it anyway IF they can even get an allocation. Plus it still does not take away from the fact that the ZL1 is an absolute monster the likes of which took Ford several years to compete against. And if it's THAT badass, then I'll buy one anyway so...

On the other hand, after all this bullshit with Ford and the release date on the GT500, you better hope and pray to God that it does outperform the ZL1 in EVERY aspect AND comes in at the same price without markups. Because if even one of those is off, then it will be a complete failure in my book. So don't do your victory dance just yet skippy.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I get your point but the GT500 was never intended to be a track car like the Z28 was, can we agree on that? Let me ask you this do you think that the huge power advantage that the present ZL1 has plays any role in it being faster than the GT350R? If a new 500 comes out sporting a hp advantage and wins H2H will this forum not cry about the power advantage?

When (if) the 500 comes out it won't change the fact that: -The SS 1LE was just as fast as the 350R.
-The 15-17 GT was slower than the 11-14 one
-The 18 GT A10 Drag Mode is only .1 faster than a manual SS
-Ford still has nothing that comes close to a base ZL1.

The GT500 could have 1000 horsepower and beat the ZLE by 30 seconds on the ring and this generation is still a loss in our eyes. Nothing said on either of these forums is going to sway opinions on that.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

When (if) the 500 comes out it won't change the fact that: -The SS 1LE was just as fast as the 350R.
-The 15-17 GT was slower than the 11-14 one
-The 18 GT A10 Drag Mode is only .1 faster than a manual SS
-Ford still has nothing that comes close to a base ZL1.

The GT500 could have 1000 horsepower and beat the ZLE by 30 seconds on the ring and this generation is still a loss in our eyes. Nothing said on either of these forums is going to sway opinions on that.

Please show me any H2H matchup where the SS 1LE was faster than the R. In the C&D testing it was over 3-seconds slower, it was slower in the MT best drivers car as well, so please stop the nonsense. Yes 15-17 GT was a dog I agree. The 18 GT is faster than the SS in time and mph, the Camaros A10 didn't help it. Ford doesn't have anything for the ZL1.

I understand that no matter what a 500 might be capable of it will be a failure in this forums eyes

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I get your point but the GT500 was never intended to be a track car like the Z28 was, can we agree on that?

The base 13/14 GT500 was announced as a track-day car and it even came with an optional "Track Package" ...like the ZL1 1LE.

DEARBORN, Mich., May 15, 2012 – The 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 is about to go where no Mustang has gone before, with a complete package for everyday drivers and track-day enthusiasts alike, 662 horsepower and top track speeds of more than 200 mph.

Handling, all AdvanceTrac. The previously available unique traction control system and electronic stability control settings help drivers achieve maximum performance whether on the street or the track.

Both systems can be completely disabled in controlled track situations where maximum driver skill is utilized, or fully engaged for safety during normal driving or in less-than-ideal traction conditions.

The upgraded Brembo brake system complements the other changes on the 2013 Shelby GT500 for control and fade-free stops in road and race situations.

Going further
Also new for 2013 is an optional Performance Package with electronically adjustable dampers and a Torsen® limited-slip differential. A Track Package can be added for all-out racetrack performance including three additional coolers.
http://ophelia.sdsu.edu:8080/ford/09...-as-35567.html

Originally Posted by newmoon

Let me ask you this do you think that the huge power advantage that the present ZL1 has plays any role in it being faster than the GT350R?

As Blaq mentioned, the GT350R is a more extreme track car effort than the gen5 Z/28. The fact that the grand touring, base version of the ZL1 is a better track car is due primarily to the Alpha chassis. The base ZL1 isn't that focused. Triple threat - cushy on the street. As fast as a Hellcat at the drag strip. Faster than a GT350R on a road course.

There is a 1LE track package that can be added to the ZL1. Similar to what Ford did with the GT500.

Originally Posted by newmoon

If a new 500 comes out sporting a hp advantage and wins H2H will this forum not cry about the power advantage?

This forum is banking on it. They've taken long enough. If the new GT500 doesn't beat the ZL1 1LE, it will be an embarrassment unlike any other.

[gameovergt]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The base 13/14 GT500 was announced as a track-day car and it even came with an optional "Track Package" ...like the ZL1 1LE.

As Blaq mentioned, the GT350R is a more extreme track car effort than the gen5 Z/28. The fact that the grand touring, base version of the ZL1 is a better track car is due primarily to the Alpha chassis. The base ZL1 isn't that focused. Triple threat - cushy on the street. As fast as a Hellcat at the drag strip. Faster than a GT350R on a road course.

There is a 1LE track package that can be added to the ZL1. Similar to what Ford did with the GT500.


This forum is banking on it. They've taken long enough. If the new GT500 doesn't beat the ZL1 1LE, it will be an embarrassment unlike any other.

Honestly, not the 1st time Ford did this to consumers. I have a love/hate relationship with Mustangs. I love my GT because they are fun to mod. I'd like to be able to buy one that came from the factory the way 'I want it'.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The base 13/14 GT500 was announced as a track-day car and it even came with an optional "Track Package" ...like the ZL1 1LE.

As Blaq mentioned, the GT350R is a more extreme track car effort than the gen5 Z/28. The fact that the grand touring, base version of the ZL1 is a better track car is due primarily to the Alpha chassis. The base ZL1 isn't that focused. Triple threat - cushy on the street. As fast as a Hellcat at the drag strip. Faster than a GT350R on a road course.

There is a 1LE track package that can be added to the ZL1. Similar to what Ford did with the GT500.


This forum is banking on it. They've taken long enough. If the new GT500 doesn't beat the ZL1 1LE, it will be an embarrassment unlike any other.

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Ok let me see if I understand your logic. The Z28 wasn't really a track car effort by GM , The GT350R is an Track Car effort, I agree.

The 1LE version of the ZL1 is the same as adding a Track Package to the GT500

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok let me see if I understand your logic. The Z28 wasn't really a track car effort by GM , The GT350R is an Track Car effort, I agree.

The 1LE version of the ZL1 is the same as adding a Track Package to the GT500

You're better than this.

• Ford marketed the 13 GT500 as a track-day car. Similar to the base ZL1.
• The 13 GT500 came with an additional Track Performance Package for "all-out racetrack performance". Similar to Chevy offering the 1LE package.
• Ford went to greater extremes with the GT350R than Chevy did with the Z/28. FPC engine, carbon fiber wheels.

The difference is that Ford didn't do a very good job at either because they cut corners like they always do

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You're better than this.

I am? Please take a look at the changes that were included in the Z28 to the base SS, and the changes to the ZL1 that are included 1LE package and tell me again how these are similar in any way to the TP option for the 13/14 500. The 13/14 500 was still rolling on 255/285s if I recall correctly. The TP option on the 500 was a joke it didn't address the most pressing issues for the car, brakes and tires.

The Track effort was the 16 R, unfortunately it was N/A setup competing against a SC Camaro with similar handling and braking ability.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I am? Please take a look at the changes that were included in the Z28 to the base SS, and the changes to the ZL1 that are included 1LE package and tell me again how these are similar in any way to the TP option for the 13/14 500. The 13/14 500 was still rolling on 255/285s if I recall correctly. The TP option on the 500 was a joke it didn't address the most pressing issues for the car, brakes and tires.

The Track effort was the 16 R, unfortunately it was N/A setup competing against a SC Camaro with similar handling and braking ability.

See my edits above.

[ihc95]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You're better than this.

• Ford marketed the 13 GT500 as a track-day car. Similar to the base ZL1.
• The 13 GT500 came with an additional Track Performance Package for "all-out racetrack performance". Similar to Chevy offering the 1LE package.
• Ford went to greater extremes with the GT350R than Chevy did with the Z/28. FPC engine, carbon fiber wheels.

The difference is that Ford didn't do a very good job at either because they cut corners like they always do

You're on crack if you think the Z28 wasn't as extreme as the GT350R

Gen5 Z28 has:

1) carbon ceramic brakes
2) rock hard spool valve shocks
3) Pirelli Trofeo R tires

These 3 things basically make the Z28 unusable on the street, unlike the 350R.


You're better than this

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by ihc95

You're on crack if you think the Z28 wasn't as extreme as the GT350R

Gen5 Z28 has:

1) carbon ceramic brakes
2) rock hard spool valve shocks
3) Pirelli Trofeo R tires

These 3 things basically make the Z28 unusable on the street, unlike the 350R.


You're better than this

It was a comparison to the R, which got a model exclusive engine and carbon fiber wheels, but yeah when taken out of context it seems ridiculous.

The tone in this thread is very indicative of some butt hurt individuals. These are just cars, none of us should be so emotional, offended, and offensive. We ALL are better than this!