[genxer]

It won't happen, not in this era. But I was looking forward to a warmer north. A re-newed land bridge, and a life goal of road tripping to Norway and back.

I probably read the same thing from Mr. Kisin. The EV debate is a moot point. If the oil runs out, we'll find out it was fossil. Or not. Either way, it'll be deep enough to tap geo-thermal in metamorphic rock.

And that'll be a globalist lever somehow.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by snizzle

You drive a Z28? You know that's a gas guzzling V8 right? Literally killing babies.

I work in aviation FFS, you think 1500 miles a year in my Z28 will make *any* difference to my carbon footprint?

The point is if you can make a lifestyle change that positively affects the environment without costing you anything or changing the way you live your life (like using an electric car, for instance) why wouldnt you do it?

Even if you cant accept that, and TBF no-one is forcing anyone to drive an electric car - how the hell can you have a problem with other people doing it? Seriously?


And this "expensive energy" thing? Its another fallacy, renewables are cheaper: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...an-coal-report

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by docwra

I work in aviation FFS, you think 1500 miles a year in my Z28 will make *any* difference to my carbon footprint?

The point is if you can make a lifestyle change that positively affects the environment without costing you anything or changing the way you live your life (like using an electric car, for instance) why wouldnt you do it?

Even if you cant accept that, and TBF no-one is forcing anyone to drive an electric car - how the hell can you have a problem with other people doing it? Seriously?

And this "expensive energy" thing? Its another fallacy, renewables are cheaper: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...an-coal-report

Wait, you work in aviation AND you drive a Z28! You do realize planes are one of the worst polluters? Those death machines spray out 53 pounds of CO2 per mile! Dude, you're killing the polar bears.

https://blueskymodel.org/air-mile#:~...)%20per%20mile.

I bet you cook on a gas stove too. Damn baby killer.

https://www.nrdc.org/experts/merrian...20turned%20off.

Don't tell me, you're a meat eater. Do you realize what the methane those cows produce is doing to the atmosphere?

https://www.edf.org/article/farmers-...emissions-cows

Seriously, you're the reason the planet will be .000000000001 degrees warmer by the year 5520!

How dare you?

I bet you either have children or plan to don't you? Do you realize the carbon footprint of a child? 60 metric tons PER YEAR. That's like putting 13 cars on the road for a year!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/clima.../climate-kids/

Don't tell me you use a dryer for your clothes man. That would be the last straw. Which reminds me, you aren't drinking with straws are you, cause those things are horrible for the environment.

https://www.aza.org/connect-stories/...%20environment.

You need to ditch the Z28, quit your job, castrate yourself, quit cooking your food, start eating bugs, quit washing your clothes, and stop all travel beyond the distance you can walk in a day.

You'll be much happier and it's for the planet!

I have a good mind to fly over the England (private jet of course!) throw some soup on a painting, then glue myself to your floor.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by docwra

I work in aviation FFS, you think 1500 miles a year in my Z28 will make *any* difference to my carbon footprint?

The point is if you can make a lifestyle change that positively affects the environment without costing you anything or changing the way you live your life (like using an electric car, for instance) why wouldnt you do it?

Even if you cant accept that, and TBF no-one is forcing anyone to drive an electric car - how the hell can you have a problem with other people doing it? Seriously?


And this "expensive energy" thing? Its another fallacy, renewables are cheaper: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...an-coal-report

How would buying a new EV not cost anything?

Shouldn't you be setting an example for all us stupid Americans over here? So you're saying we should take measures to combat climate change as long as it's not inconvenient, got it. This is why it's hard to digest arguments from folks like you and Al Gore as you travel the world burning jet fuel.

If you really cared, you'd find a new career and a new car, but we know it's easier to mash the keyboard and pretend you're helping. Do your part.

[0stones0]

Originally Posted by bootss

Owning and EV is a lifestyle choice just as much as owning a sports car is. Once people start trying to justify it beyond that point I stop listening. I'm just not interested.

I especially hate cars with a giant screen that breaks the dash line and more tech than they need to get up and go. I think the 6th gen Camaro is the last modern car I'm going to love.

I work with a handful of Tesla zealots and I just don't engage. "Uh huh, that's nice" and continue on with my day. Life isn't about convincing strangers I'm right, unless I'm a politician or some other kind of professional bullshit artist.

Major +1!

[0stones0]

Originally Posted by docwra

I work in aviation FFS, you think 1500 miles a year in my Z28 will make *any* difference to my carbon footprint?

The point is if you can make a lifestyle change that positively affects the environment without costing you anything or changing the way you live your life (like using an electric car, for instance) why wouldnt you do it?

Even if you cant accept that, and TBF no-one is forcing anyone to drive an electric car - how the hell can you have a problem with other people doing it? Seriously?


And this "expensive energy" thing? Its another fallacy, renewables are cheaper: https://www.theguardian.com/environm...an-coal-report

You do realize you’re on a muscle car enthusiast site…..right?….. right?
Yea…. I know, you’re having a “discussion”.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by snizzle

How would buying a new EV not cost anything?

No more than buying a new ICE car? Apart from the tax credits and cheaper fuel ..... that actually make it cheaper?

Shouldn't you be setting an example for all us stupid Americans over here?

Im not calling anyone stupid, just pointing out some inaccurate statements, like electric power is more expensive (its not) and electric cars are more polluting taking construction into account (they arent).

If you dont want to hear that cleaner, cheaper power that still gets you from A-B in the same amount of time is a good thing maybe dont get involved in a discussion about electric cars?

As for getting a new job and a new car ........ sure, you can do stuff on a personal level (and I do where I can) and it will have a minor effect, but the reality is climate change is not going to slow down or stop unless changes are made at government level, stuff like phasing out new ICE car production, moving from fossil fuels to renewables for energy production and investing in new technology like hydrogen and fusion.

You know who governments listen to when they make their policies? The people that vote for them.
It follows that someone quoting the positives of clean energy is doing a shitload more good than someone quoting incorrect info and telling a guy he shouldnt use a gas stove, IMO climate change deniers are doing more harm then even the worst polluters, its like arguing in favour of racism.

FWIW I dont travel by private jet, I do provide maintenance for aircraft that involves a lot of travel.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Seriously, you're the reason the planet will be .000000000001 degrees warmer by the year 5520!

Let me guess, Anti vaxxer and flat earther as well?

[Wyzz Kydd]

Nope. I’m not against vaccines. I’m against compulsory vaccination, but if you want to get vaccinated have at it. I’ve been around the world a time or three, pretty sure it’s an oblate spheroid.

I believe in climate change. In fact I predict that in the northern hemisphere the climate will get significantly warmer starting in about 8-10 weeks. We will experience a phenomenon called ‘weather.’ All your virtue signaling won’t stop it. But you guys keep trying!

Like a train wreck it’s interesting to watch as long as you’re not a part of it.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by docwra

No more than buying a new ICE car? Apart from the tax credits and cheaper fuel ..... that actually make it cheaper?

It's not cheaper today for many. Tax credits don't apply to all. What do you think will happen when the governments aren't getting their cut via gas taxes by a significant margin? They'll adjust as will the power companies.

Originally Posted by docwra

As for getting a new job and a new car ........ sure, you can do stuff on a personal level (and I do where I can) and it will have a minor effect, but the reality is climate change is not going to slow down or stop unless changes are made at government level, stuff like phasing out new ICE car production, moving from fossil fuels to renewables for energy production and investing in new technology like hydrogen and fusion.

We look forward to your Z28 trade in for something more sensible. You probably should stop voting too, one person can't make a difference right?

Originally Posted by docwra

You know who governments listen to when they make their policies? The people that vote for them.

LOL, that's rich. They listen until they get elected. Even the well intentioned good folk get corrupted eventually. Both sides.

Originally Posted by docwra

someone quoting incorrect info and telling a guy he shouldnt use a gas stove, IMO climate change deniers are doing more harm then even the worst polluters, its like arguing in favour of racism.

Ummm, it's the liberal politicians telling us we shouldn't use gas stoves and taking measures to ban them. The very same pushing EVs. Shocker you're bringing race into your argument. Would you like to reference Hitler in your next post?

Originally Posted by docwra

FWIW I dont travel by private jet, I do provide maintenance for aircraft that involves a lot of travel.

Your climate change heros travel by private jet.

Please stop flying. There have to be many "clean" jobs in the UK. Blood is on your hands.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by docwra

If you dont want to hear that cleaner, cheaper power that still gets you from A-B in the same amount of time is a good thing maybe dont get involved in a discussion about electric cars?.

Originally Posted by docwra

It follows that someone quoting the positives of clean energy is doing a shitload more good than someone quoting incorrect info and telling a guy he shouldnt use a gas stove, IMO climate change deniers are doing more harm then even the worst polluters, its like arguing in favour of racism.

Typical leftist - discussion means I have all the answers agree with me or you’re a racist and shut up.

[90503]

Maybe Toyota has the right approach after all by not going "All in" on EV like gm...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...ts-feet-on-evs

Toyoda’s lack of the requisite near-religious EV enthusiasm has produced the expected results among the chattering classes: Several petitions have been produced with the goal of forcing Toyota to go “all-in” on electric, one of which had 110,000 signatures when it was delivered to the company, with much fanfare, by SumOfUs, a nongovernmental organization that accepts anonymous donations to “empower change.” This flurry of petitions is, in and of itself, quite telling. One rarely needs to petition a corporation to do anything that is genuinely in its best interests. That’s what shareholders are for.

One suspects this is a classic “Prisoner’s Dilemma” situation. If every automaker goes “all-in” on EVs, they will collectively be too big to fail when the EV bubble bursts due to a lack of raw materials, poor vehicle performance, or simple consumer disgust. At that point, they can expect healthy compensation from the governments that forced them into this strategy. If everyone but Toyota buys in, however, then come 2035, Toyota will have a complete line of newly engineered gasoline and diesel vehicles in its showrooms while its competitors have their 2025 lineups, minus the tooling and production facilities they had to destroy and/or repurpose over the course of the previous decade. It will not have escaped their memories that Toyota, not Honda (the FWD innovator) or GM (the enthusiastic FWD follower), makes the top two bestselling passenger cars in the U.S. Think of what the company could do if it had no effective competition.

Speaking of bestselling cars, just four of the top 10 bestselling vehicles in this country are front-wheel drive. Fifty years after the feeding frenzy, FWD turned out to be neither a curiosity nor a compulsory feature. Instead, it’s simply one potential answer to the automotive question and not always the best one. Chances are the EV will eventually assume a similar place in the market. Right now, there’s just one automaker with the intelligence to understand this and the courage to plan accordingly. Time will tell if Toyota was right — but history suggests you’d be a fool to bet against it.

[Camaro fanboy]

we bought a nissan leaf in november. one of the best cars i've ever owned in 40 years of driving. for what it's built to do anyway. get to to point b and back again as cheap as possible.
we've gone from spending 500 usd a month on fuel to 50 usd on electric. almost no road tax. servicing is almost nothing. i'll do it myself.
we'll keep this bad boy untill the battery gives up. we never fast charge it so hopefully it'll last us 10 years.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Maybe Toyota has the right approach after all by not going "All in" on EV like gm...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...ts-feet-on-evs

Toyoda’s lack of the requisite near-religious EV enthusiasm has produced the expected results among the chattering classes: Several petitions have been produced with the goal of forcing Toyota to go “all-in” on electric, one of which had 110,000 signatures when it was delivered to the company, with much fanfare, by SumOfUs, a nongovernmental organization that accepts anonymous donations to “empower change.” This flurry of petitions is, in and of itself, quite telling. One rarely needs to petition a corporation to do anything that is genuinely in its best interests. That’s what shareholders are for.

One suspects this is a classic “Prisoner’s Dilemma” situation. If every automaker goes “all-in” on EVs, they will collectively be too big to fail when the EV bubble bursts due to a lack of raw materials, poor vehicle performance, or simple consumer disgust. At that point, they can expect healthy compensation from the governments that forced them into this strategy. If everyone but Toyota buys in, however, then come 2035, Toyota will have a complete line of newly engineered gasoline and diesel vehicles in its showrooms while its competitors have their 2025 lineups, minus the tooling and production facilities they had to destroy and/or repurpose over the course of the previous decade. It will not have escaped their memories that Toyota, not Honda (the FWD innovator) or GM (the enthusiastic FWD follower), makes the top two bestselling passenger cars in the U.S. Think of what the company could do if it had no effective competition.

Speaking of bestselling cars, just four of the top 10 bestselling vehicles in this country are front-wheel drive. Fifty years after the feeding frenzy, FWD turned out to be neither a curiosity nor a compulsory feature. Instead, it’s simply one potential answer to the automotive question and not always the best one. Chances are the EV will eventually assume a similar place in the market. Right now, there’s just one automaker with the intelligence to understand this and the courage to plan accordingly. Time will tell if Toyota was right — but history suggests you’d be a fool to bet against it.

Here are two things the article you quote ignores. There are more, but we’ll stick with two:

1. Toyota recently announced that they too are jumping on the EV train. They will continue to develop and produce ICE and Hybrid vehicles until they can get caught up with other automakers. But then, so are all the other automakers. It’s a transition to get to 2035, not flipping a switch and one day being 100% EV. But make no mistake, Toyota is definitely now on board with the trend towards EV. https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyo...s-akio-toyoda/
2. Yes, Toyota does have the two best selling passenger cars. But the sales of those passenger cars are eclipsed by the sales of Ford F-150 and GM Silverado/Sierra.

Toyota has slow-walked the transition to electric because why would you give up a lead in hybrids, right? And because electric doesn’t make as much sense in Japan as it does in China, EU, and North America, the three largest markets.