[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by closs2sx

mustang and dodge both have higher hp and they are selling better neither one handle as good and in my opinion neither look any better, Hp sells.
For me I buy on performance, it needs to be the entire package, i would just prefer the entire package to be the highest hp as well so there is no doubt which car is king of the road. Camaro leaves doubt in the minds of the uninformed. Like i said before HP and 1/4 mile times sell the car why do you think they go through the trouble to post the best possible times when they market them.

You have no data to support that. You're just spouting shit out of your head and stating is as fact.

SHOW ME HARD DATA THAT SHOWS THAT THEY ARE SELLING MORE CARS BECAUSE THEY OFFER CARS WITH MORE HP.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by shaffe

OUCH that is bad. But didn't the CT4 and CT5 just start rolling out in this quarter?



This is true ^ this is going to really hurt the segment, the problem here is Challenger and Mustang were still in the 10K units for the quarter. Camaro was not. Yes the segment as a whole is bad, Camaro did worse.



Difference is for the parts bin argument is no other Ford has the VooDoo or Predator. LT4 is in the Camaro, Corvette and former CTS-V





That is one thing that is so hard for people to understand. The volume for all of these cars comes from the low end models where majority of buyers won't care if its the fastest/best handling/ whatever. Does it look good, does it offer good features and does it do what they need it to do.




Well said.



But it's not just golf clubs, but golf clubs are the easiest to talk about. That can almost relate to anybody that plays sports. Equipment takes up a lot of room. Ever seen a mens hockey bag? You're (not you but GM in a sense) basically saying anybody that wants to play sports still tough shit you can't also enjoy a pony car.

I've said it many times, I used to DD a Mustang since 04. Could get my golf clubs and bat bag in there. Life got in the way and I had to get rid of it. When my lease is up on my Mazda I might try to get back into a coupe because the wife has an Explorer. At the moment, I can't even consider the camaro because it won't allow me to still enjoy my other hobbies but the Mustang and Challenger will. I am not saying I need to be able to run to home depot and load the car up with stuff. I am just saying I think they could have made a slightly larger trunk opening/area with out compromising performance or styling that much.





Yep, currently it has Camaro crossed off my potential list of cars as well.



Can't put the seat down when you have a child seat in the back since it's not a split folding seat. It's a situation like that were trunk space is ideal.



The Mustang Convertible has more trunk space than the Camaro Coupe does...



Ford had a Mustang ad very similar to that, female teacher leaving school gets into her Mustang GT





this ^

Video has no sound.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Not 100% true. The 67 Camaro was the ONLY vehicle that year to have the optional 350 SB available. Everything else (including the Corvette) got the 327 SB.

1968 seen it available in all Chevy vehicles.

Short of that, yes, they've all been slightly detuned 'vette engines.

The 396 was introduce in the Corvette in 65'. The 396 was an option for the first Camaro in 1967. Camaro has almost if not always shared an Engine with the Corvette.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

Those Nissan truck fender flares are pretty special on those Challengers. Lol

Fender flares have been around long even before Nissan was a Datsun.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

You have no data to support that. You're just spouting shit out of your head and stating is as fact.

SHOW ME HARD DATA THAT SHOWS THAT THEY ARE SELLING MORE CARS BECAUSE THEY OFFER CARS WITH MORE HP.

SHOW US HARD DATA THAT HP DOESN'T AFFECT SALES.

See how that works? It goes both ways

[AZCamaroFan]

do you have any idea where GearheadSS works ?

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

SHOW US HARD DATA THAT HP DOESN'T AFFECT SALES.

See how that works? It goes both ways

The burden of proof is on whoever is making the claim.

[rocket403]

GM Dealer I think

I think HP does sell to a degree, the Dodge Twins have on the same platform for 12 and 15 years in that time the sales have increased while Camaro has decreased in sales.

So what has been the major factors in those to cars.
Dodge has gone from 6.1 to a 6.4 425/485hp plus 6.2 707/797/840hp
Dodge has made sure that there is a lot of press for the Challenger
Dodge has offered many different package options to keep interest in the Challenger
Dodge does not have the Vert

So what has GM done
GM didn't address some of the public concerns
Chevy has the 6.2 426/455hp plus 580hp
GM has not kept the Camaro in spotlight after Transformers
GM has had some special models
Camaro has a convertible model

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by rocket403

GM Dealer I think

I think HP does sell to a degree, the Dodge Twins have on the same platform for 12 and 15 years in that time the sales have increased while Camaro has decreased in sales.

So what has been the major factors in those to cars.
Dodge has gone from 6.1 to a 6.4 425/485hp plus 6.2 707/797/840hp
Dodge has made sure that there is a lot of press for the Challenger
Dodge has offered many different package options to keep interest in the Challenger
Dodge does not have the Vert

So what has GM done
GM didn't address some of the public concerns
Chevy has the 6.2 426/455hp plus 580hp
GM has not kept the Camaro in spotlight after Transformers
GM has had some special models
Camaro has a convertible model

Dodge Challenger sales sucked the first few years of comeback and was sched. to be axed until they began the aggressive in your face ad campaigns. We now see the results of that aggressive all out assault. They made aggressive attacks from land, sea and air and finished them off with the carrier based Hellcat fighters. FIAT controls the purse strings but looks like Dodge still has the American fighting spirit.

[VinnAY]

If they'd bring Camaro in to the 84/0% sale I'd upgrade to the ZL1 in a heartbeat.

[genxer]

For a bit, I was afraid this thread was going into "you're mama" insults between Ford and Cadillac admirers.

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

Fender flares have been around long even before Nissan was a Datsun.

I like the retro styling way, way more than most. And I'm finally ready for the hips to (mostly) go. Flare use can help tighten up a big butt.

For utility improvement: Why didn't the refresh add a split bench? Maybe RX-8 doors for next gen? I didn't realize about the Mustang vert trunk space being more. Both could still be better daily cars. That bubble roof profile, ughh.

[closs2sx]

if hp didn't sell why not keep hp at 180 ish where the late 2nd gens were? Tell me who would buy 180 v8 camaro today. Why does a honda civic need 300+ hp.... why because it sells and they can add to the msrp and still sell it.

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by closs2sx

if hp didn't sell why not keep hp at 180 ish where the late 2nd gens were? Tell me who would buy 180 v8 camaro today

That wouldn't produce competitive performance #s. The 6th gen Camaro's performance is very competitive as things stand.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by rocket403

GM Dealer I think

I think HP does sell to a degree, the Dodge Twins have on the same platform for 12 and 15 years in that time the sales have increased while Camaro has decreased in sales.

So what has been the major factors in those to cars.
Dodge has gone from 6.1 to a 6.4 425/485hp plus 6.2 707/797/840hp
Dodge has made sure that there is a lot of press for the Challenger
Dodge has offered many different package options to keep interest in the Challenger
Dodge does not have the Vert

So what has GM done
GM didn't address some of the public concerns
Chevy has the 6.2 426/455hp plus 580hp
GM has not kept the Camaro in spotlight after Transformers
GM has had some special models
Camaro has a convertible model

580 HP Camaro ?? I don't recall GM having 580 HP in anything. ZL1 is 650 HP and has bested both Ford and Fiat around the track (shhhhhhhh those magazines are another way the car is marketed, but don't tell anyone)

Also there is this thing called NASCAR where GM spends boat loads of money marketing the car. Now you can argue NASCAR is down on TV and attendance, but it's not like they're doing nothing. Just not true.