[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

If you are that incapable of driving a manual due to pain, you probably shouldn't be driving, period, but I digress. Then again, the physical incapability to drive has never stopped anyone from getting a driver's license. I doubt there are many one-legged race car drivers out there. Don't you?

Automatics do not perform around a track. They are straight line vehicles. A manual, when driven properly, will decimate an automatic. They don't belong in track-oriented types of cars because the shift points will never be optimal, no matter how good they are programmed. They are not faster, and won't be anytime soon, so it is an invalid comparison.

This isn't an opinion. Automatic transmissions are not used in a track-oriented cars for performance sake. They are there for sales. Most Americans are incapable of driving a manual transmission. It is simply for sales numbers and revenue. If cars were designed solely for performance, track cars wouldn't be offered in an automatic.

Ha!!

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

Why? Porsche doesn't even use automatics. They use dual clutches, which are basically manual transmissions with computer controled clutches. The automatic in the Camaro has a torque converter, two vastly different transmission types. On a side note, Porsche did try a traditional automatic. It was called the Tiptronic, and wasn't very good.

I've very aware of what it is and did you know the tranny in the vette shifted faster than the PDK?

Look I'm probably going manual this time around myself. But to say modern autos aren't fast on a track is nuts. Plenty of auto's hold the gear like a manual these days and they shift faster.

[mcsoul]

There are reports that in track mode on the a8 z51, leave it in auto, don't try to paddle shift just let it do it's thing, and it's fast and it picks the right gear and holds it around corners automatically.

[brutusvk]

Funny thing is, notice how many super cars don't have a clutch pedal nowadays? Dual clutch assemblies with paddle shifters.

Some people are just born jerks. If you like the AT, great. If manual is your thing, awesome. But to be a pompous as because of the safety of the computer, weak. Keyboard commandos are everywhere. I hope karma does not carch this particular person and he ends up with a physical limitation that in his words should prevent him from driving.

[Davy_Baby9]

Originally Posted by brutusvk

Funny thing is, notice how many super cars don't have a clutch pedal nowadays? Dual clutch assemblies with paddle shifters.

Some people are just born jerks. If you like the AT, great. If manual is your thing, awesome. But to be a pompous as because of the safety of the computer, weak. Keyboard commandos are everywhere. I hope karma does not carch this particular person and he ends up with a physical limitation that in his words should prevent him from driving.

Super cars with DCT?? Chick cars.

[brutusvk]

Actually Ferrari and Lamborghini don't think so. Almost every supecar will be dual clutch soon. Lighting fast shifts that cannot be matched by a pedal.

[mcsoul]

There's got to be a Holiday Inn Express full of wifi users somewhere.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by SUMMIT WHITE SS

Why? Porsche doesn't even use automatics. They use dual clutches, which are basically manual transmissions with computer controled clutches. The automatic in the Camaro has a torque converter, two vastly different transmission types. On a side note, Porsche did try a traditional automatic. It was called the Tiptronic, and wasn't very good.

An automatic transmission is a transmission that shifts automatically.... so yes a DCT is also an automatic transmission. Though it is generally more precisely stated to be an automated manual transmission, which is exactly what it is.

Both manual transmissions and automatic transmissions have gotten better over the decades. With manual transmissions you have things like auto blip which will blip the throttle for you, you have hill hold which will hold the brakes for 2 seconds or until you start moving forward. You also have no lift shift algorithms built into the ECU which will drop engine rpms while you are WOT for the shift.

With that said there have also been huge improvements to automatic transmissions as well. Motor Trend was able to run a faster lap time around Leguna Seca in the ATS V with the 8L90 then they were with a manual transmission equip car. For automatics they have removed sluggishness from them as well as dramatically increase shift speeds. Though yes in manual shift mode the 8L90 just lacks the responsiveness of a DCT.... . The 8L90 has been praised for its ability in automatic mode to be in the right gear when you need it there.

The reality isn't that one transmission choice is better then the other just a different set of trade offs.....

SMG- Sequential manual gearboxs are the transmission of choice for those racing series that do not run synchromesh manual gearboxes. They are used for example on GT3 spec race cars as well as GT race cars like the C7R and Formula one race cars. You do not see new road cars with these transmissions as they have fallen out of favor.

DCT- Dual clutch transmissions actually date back to pre world war II and early work for production being done in the 1950s. Porsche tried them out in the 1980s in their 956 and 962 race cars however they were reliable at exploding especially on longer races. They are now limited to road cars.....

Really though DCT transmissions fall apart when it comes to driving refinement around town. Honda Motor has solved this by adding a torque converter to the equation, they also cost more, weigh more, and are not yet as reliable as manuals and traditional torque converter automatic transmissions. They also tend to have lower torque handling capability, the 8L90 really sits between the traditional automatic and a DCT. It has many of the advantages of a DCT without the drawbacks and only making a sacrifice when it comes to responsiveness.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by doc7000

An automatic transmission is a transmission that shifts automatically.... so yes a DCT is also an automatic transmission. Though it is generally more precisely stated to be an automated manual transmission, which is exactly what it is.

Both manual transmissions and automatic transmissions have gotten better over the decades. With manual transmissions you have things like auto blip which will blip the throttle for you, you have hill hold which will hold the brakes for 2 seconds or until you start moving forward. You also have no lift shift algorithms built into the ECU which will drop engine rpms while you are WOT for the shift.

With that said there have also been huge improvements to automatic transmissions as well. Motor Trend was able to run a faster lap time around Leguna Seca in the ATS V with the 8L90 then they were with a manual transmission equip car. For automatics they have removed sluggishness from them as well as dramatically increase shift speeds. Though yes in manual shift mode the 8L90 just lacks the responsiveness of a DCT.... . The 8L90 has been praised for its ability in automatic mode to be in the right gear when you need it there.

The reality isn't that one transmission choice is better then the other just a different set of trade offs.....

SMG- Sequential manual gearboxs are the transmission of choice for those racing series that do not run synchromesh manual gearboxes. They are used for example on GT3 spec race cars as well as GT race cars like the C7R and Formula one race cars. You do not see new road cars with these transmissions as they have fallen out of favor.

DCT- Dual clutch transmissions actually date back to pre world war II and early work for production being done in the 1950s. Porsche tried them out in the 1980s in their 956 and 962 race cars however they were reliable at exploding especially on longer races. They are now limited to road cars.....

Really though DCT transmissions fall apart when it comes to driving refinement around town. Honda Motor has solved this by adding a torque converter to the equation, they also cost more, weigh more, and are not yet as reliable as manuals and traditional torque converter automatic transmissions. They also tend to have lower torque handling capability, the 8L90 really sits between the traditional automatic and a DCT. It has many of the advantages of a DCT without the drawbacks and only making a sacrifice when it comes to responsiveness.

Good post thank you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[AZCamaroFan]

finally got this issue in the mail today. a few thing's stick out:
wow talk about different models. they have a basically stripped 1SS for 38K vs. a Loaded GT for 47K.
camaro won decisively no doubt.
and of course the obligatory snobby, out of touch reference's to mullet's and red necks regarding the camaro .

[Number 3]

Don't try to make a DCT the same as an automatic. No matter how fast GM says the new 8 speeds shifts........................it's not a DCT.

To be even more precise, a DCT is an automatically shifted manual transmission with the benefit of having 2, two yes one more than one clutch. So a very well programmed DCT is already in the next gear whether going up or down.

The best automatic will not be as good as a DCT. And you probably can't make that claim unless you've drive one.

Yep, the early ones sucked. A lot. But the current DCTs are just flat out awesome. Unless you really, really, really like using your left leg for no reason other than shifting SLOWER, a DCT is really the way to go. And I think GM will have them soon. They offer even better FE than what the rest of us call and automatic transmission.

[Number 3]

Don't try to make a DCT the same as an automatic. No matter how fast GM says the new 8 speeds shifts........................it's not a DCT.

To be even more precise, a DCT is an automatically shifted manual transmission with the benefit of having 2, two yes one more than one clutch. So a very well programmed DCT is already in the next gear whether going up or down.

The best automatic will not be as good as a DCT. And you probably can't make that claim unless you've drive one.

Yep, the early ones sucked. A lot. But the current DCTs are just flat out awesome. Unless you really, really, really like using your left leg for no reason other than shifting SLOWER, a DCT is really the way to go. And I think GM will have them soon. They offer even better FE than what the rest of us call and automatic transmission.

[Bassment]

So when autopilot / driverless cars come out that can outperform even the best driver on a track, you guys will all buy those because they're faster?

[JAG47]

Dosnt the A8 overheat because you drive it to hard?