[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

I’m sure the tires can be worn and not dangerous. If they were deemed dangerous they would not have let Chris run the 1/4 on them either.

Randy did mention that the tires didn’t feel as good as expected, he doesn’t specifically call them worn but Chris Walton does.

The tires condition means nothing to me in relation to the lap times. They are what they are, but when you have someone trying to claim it was the Z on worn rubber when the opposite is what’s written, then the record needs to be set straight.

I think he mentioned worn for drag as that it gives it even more grip on take off, that why he said the R was so hard to launch. As far as the Zl1 goes as far as tires go, it’s more of reading between the lines. They don’t say anything about the tires, but they do say this time was much slower then there last test a couple months earlier, then say it was the same car, same track and same driver. So it’s obvious that the zl1 tires were not new either. I’m sure if there was any tire advantage, they would of mentioned it.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

I think he mentioned worn for drag as that it gives it even more grip on take off, that why he said the R was so hard to launch. As far as the Zl1 goes as far as tires go, it’s more of reading between the lines. They don’t say anything about the tires, but they do say this time was much slower then there last test a couple months earlier, then say it was the same car, same track and same driver. So it’s obvious that the zl1 tires were not new either. I’m sure if there was any tire advantage, they would of mentioned it.

But Randy wrote a whole sidebar explaining why the ZL1 times were likely slower and tires weren’t a factor in his explanation.

Also Cups are not a tire that gets better when they get worn, quite the opposite.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Sorry magazine racer, you don’t get to cherry pick your lap times, the R ran in the same track conditions the Z did and it had worn cups on it.

You really need every excuse in the book. Just like a ricer.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

There is no argument, you’ve been wrong all along.

Everything coming out your mouth is nothing but bullshit, fairy tales, wishes, and the stupidest nonsense I've ever read.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

I’m sure the tires can be worn and not dangerous. If they were deemed dangerous they would not have let Chris run the 1/4 on them either.

Randy did mention that the tires didn’t feel as good as expected, he doesn’t specifically call them worn but Chris Walton does.

The tires condition means nothing to me in relation to the lap times. They are what they are, but when you have someone trying to claim it was the Z on worn rubber when the opposite is what’s written, then the record needs to be set straight.

More excuses from you.

[BlaqWhole]

Worn tires, new tires, what the hell ever. Getting your ass stomped into the ground is a loss no matter how you try to excuse it.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Dodge has the HCs in the 10s

The HC widebody in particular. MSRP $70K. Beats the ZL1 in the quarter mile. Loses to the ZL1 on a track. ZL1. MSRP $63K. Beats the Hellcat WB around a track by a LOT. Loses in the quarter mile. I'd say that's a tie. Of note the Hellcat WB has 67 more HP.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Ford has the 500 in the 10s, Chevy has the 11:40s Camaro.

Chevy has the ZL1 at 202 MPH. GT500 can't do more than 180 MPH. GT500 has not had any official times yet. ZL1 has done 11.4. GT500 has 110 more HP and costs $10K more BTW. I'd say the ZL1 is the winner there.

Originally Posted by newmoon

When is the next Gen coming 2024? Can anyone tell me when Chevy will be responding to being slowest of the bunch?

Fastest around a track. ZLE is cheaper than the base GT500 and a base Hellcat WB by a significant amount. So which is the better car? ZL1 hands down.

BTW, which one do you have?

[jvandy50]

If it’s the snippet hotlap posted(#2548), he says the cup 2s are merely adequate because of a “green track”...not worn tires.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Are you clowns seriously disputing the article as written by the people who drove the cars. That’s a new low even for this crowd. They make no mention of the Z’s tires being worn, they both make comments regarding the R’s.

This is the second time that you've referred to us as "clowns". And frankly, I'm getting sick of seeing your insults. If you have something against the Camaro, then fine. That is your opinion. But when you start insulting us when not one person has called you a name, then that is unacceptable. And honestly, IDGAF who gave you a golden pass to say what you want and insult people how you want. If someone gave you that kind of pass to come on a Camaro forum and insult Camaro owners and the people who support the Camaro and this forum, then something is seriously wrong. You are no better than any of us. Disagreeing is one thing. Stating your opinion regardless of what it is is fine. But you are not allowed to insult people here and that is the first rule of this forum. But keep thinking you're untouchable. Keep doing it and I'll enjoy seeing you eventually get booted from here. Just like all the trolls before you have been booted. It'll happen sooner or later.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Regarding whether or not power plays a role in how close the ZL1 and R were (0.39 seconds) by same driver same day...food for thought:

"The Camaro is dramatically faster on the front straight, grips better around the long, lower-speed Turn 2 and slingshots around the very quick Turn 8 faster than the Shelby. But the Ford catches up in nips and bits—a little here, a little there.

The GT350R repeatedly brakes a little better, particularly approaching the Turn 3, 'Omega' corner; it momentarily notches a peak-speed win between Turns 6 and 7. Heroically, it claws back part of that gap through the terrifying Turn 9."

I think, given this quote, the hp is what kept the ZL1 ahead at the finish considering they were nearly tied at the end of turn 9. The ZL1 pulled away in the straight by a few car lengths at the end of the race.

Now please stop, we don't allow any of this nonsense in this forum. HP advantage had nothing to do with the ZL1's win.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Worn tires, new tires, what the hell ever. Getting your ass stomped into the ground is a loss no matter how you try to excuse it.

The HC widebody in particular. MSRP $70K. Beats the ZL1 in the quarter mile. Loses to the ZL1 on a track. ZL1. MSRP $63K. Beats the Hellcat WB around a track by a LOT. Loses in the quarter mile. I'd say that's a tie. Of note the Hellcat WB has 67 more HP.

Chevy has the ZL1 at 202 MPH. GT500 can't do more than 180 MPH. GT500 has not had any official times yet. ZL1 has done 11.4. GT500 has 110 more HP and costs $10K more BTW. I'd say the ZL1 is the winner there.

Fastest around a track. ZLE is cheaper than the base GT500 and a base Hellcat WB by a significant amount. So which is the better car? ZL1 hands down.

BTW, which one do you have?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's next the Ring time fallback?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Now please stop, we don't allow any of this nonsense in this forum. HP advantage had nothing to do with the ZL1's win.

Here is something that we all can agree on.

If a track special Camaro is compared to a high powered, grand touring Mustang ...we all would expect the Camaro to win. Gen5 Z/28 and GT500

When a track special Mustang is compared to a high powered, grand touring Camaro ...no one expects the Mustang to win. Gen6 GT350R and ZL1

No further explanation or discussion required.

Originally Posted by hotlap

The GT350R weighed 245 lbs less than the ZL1 and costs $3,535 more. The advantage of its carbon fiber wheels, reduce rotating mass (-60 lbs), is proven by the gap the R puts on the base GT350. It also had the advantage of a 8,250 rpm, FPC engine designed specifically for the track.

GT350R: 3662 lbs / 526 hp = 6.96 lbs/hp.
ZL1: 3907 lbs / 650 hp = 6.01 lbs/hp.

$68,230 GT350R
$64,695 ZL1 M6

A full blown track car vs a base grand touring trim. In the 5th gen, you would have expected the lower powered, lower torque Z/28 to beat the GT500 even though they were equal weight.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by jvandy50

If it’s the snippet hotlap posted(#2548), he says the cup 2s are merely adequate because of a “green track”...not worn tires.

He also says they inspected the GT350R’s tires and verified that they were “the Ford spec”.

The GT350R’s tires probably did feel as good as they remembered for past tests because they just got out of a ZL1.

From the driver's seat, the ZL1 is almost a luxury car. The ride is excellent, and the experience is fairly subdued. The ZL1 suffers from the same affliction that strikes the Porsche 911 Turbo: When you're not pounding the bloody edge of the envelope, the car is too docile. There's not much to remind you that you are driving one hell of a world-class sports car. The Shelby GT350R is the opposite. It's almost too much. Due to the superlative steering and sticky tires, the front end tramlines mercilessly.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Here is something that we all can agree on.

If a track special Camaro is compared to a high powered, grand touring Mustang ...we all would expect the Camaro to win. Gen5 Z/28 and GT500

When a track special Mustang is compared to a high powered, grand touring Camaro ...no one expects the Mustang to win. Gen6 GT350R and ZL1

No further explanation or discussion required.

And the GT500 had a better HP to weight ratio than the Z28. But let him keep thinking HP is the say all end all. The GT500 will have no excuse now since it has way more HP than the ZLE and is coming in brand new vs an unchanged ZLE. Well...unless the tires have more than 0.05 miles on them that is.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And the GT500 had a better HP to weight ratio than the Z28. But let him keep thinking HP is the say all end all. The GT500 will have no excuse now since it has way more HP than the ZLE and is coming in brand new vs an unchanged ZLE. Well...unless the tires have more than 0.05 miles on them that is.

The prior GT500 was on 285 series tires out back and 255 series in front trying to harness 660+ hp, I have the same on my 440-hp Boss and I can't put the power to the ground, it was doomed from the start. The Z28 was on 305s squared Trefeo Rs all around, no advantage there right. Comical.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

This is the second time that you've referred to us as "clowns". And frankly, I'm getting sick of seeing your insults. If you have something against the Camaro, then fine. That is your opinion. But when you start insulting us when not one person has called you a name, then that is unacceptable. And honestly, IDGAF who gave you a golden pass to say what you want and insult people how you want. If someone gave you that kind of pass to come on a Camaro forum and insult Camaro owners and the people who support the Camaro and this forum, then something is seriously wrong. You are no better than any of us. Disagreeing is one thing. Stating your opinion regardless of what it is is fine. But you are not allowed to insult people here and that is the first rule of this forum. But keep thinking you're untouchable. Keep doing it and I'll enjoy seeing you eventually get booted from here. Just like all the trolls before you have been booted. It'll happen sooner or later.

If you get tired of being seen as a joke start basing your arguments in reality.

Also I take offense to being called a “ricer” ...that term has a derogatory racial overtone and I am half Vietnamese so kindly refrain from calling me that or it may be you that finds himself on the outside looking in.

I own an American made vehicle also so there’s that.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Sorry magazine racer, you don’t get to cherry pick your lap times, the R ran in the same track conditions the Z did and it had worn cups on it.

Bottom line

1. The ZL1 won while being driven in a manner seen, and described by the author, as docile.
2. The same car, on the same track, driven by the same driver ran 2 seconds faster in a pervious M6 vs A10 review. It’s recorded fact. Not relevant here ...but see the underline section of point #1.
   Intangible human factor - motivation