[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Lightning Lap is one of the most highly regarded track comparisons out there these days. You want better data then you need to strap up with your own cash and cars.

Meh, I wouldn't go that far. Motor Trends Best Drivers Car is more highly regarded if you ask me. As they use the same pro driver (Randy Pobst) for all the cars.

It will be out very soon...

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by x1sniper3x

I feel like we can all agree that similar conditions are what we all want in these tests. Sadly, it's just not going to happen with something like the Lightning Lap testing. It's probably about as close as you can get to an annually performed test event though.

I also think running the same tires is a bit of skewed data. Sure, it might give a closer head-to-head comparison, but it's also changing how the cars were built to perform. GM and Ford built these cars to the specs that they felt achieved their goals, whether those goals be to be a pure track car or a happy medium between track and street use. And sure, tires are the easiest things to change to improve lap times, and it's something anyone doing any kind of regular tracking would do, but to do it during a head-to-head factory comparison just doesn't make sense to me. These tests are usually built to compare the two cars straight from the showroom floor as a benchmark for the factory performance of the vehicle.

Just my $0.02

I understand, which is the reason I would like to see both tests done. Manufacturers are building daily drivers, and equip vehicles as such (with rare exceptions). The second you take the vehicle to a road coarse, you are now testing the vehicle out of it's element. I understand that it's easy to muddy the waters so to speak, but tires have the single most influence on vehicle dynamics and are entirely consumable...and allowed to be changed in most SCCA classes. Everyone is basing opinions on how a track is going to fare in competition, yet we are handicapping only some of them in these comparisons.

Wouldn't you like to see how a 1SS would fare against the GT350 with the same tires?

Motortrend has already shown willingness to switch tires on a head to head, why not do it for all vehicles when putting up lap times.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Motor Trend I know tries to have the same fuel loads. Hence why in the SS vs M4 test afterwards they said they goofed and the M4 was on a low fuel load, while the SS was on a full tank.

I can appreciate their admittance. At least it shows they have a desire to level the field.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I understand, which is the reason I would like to see both tests done. Manufacturers are building daily drivers, and equip vehicles as such (with rare exceptions). The second you take the vehicle to a road coarse, you are now testing the vehicle out of it's element. I understand that it's easy to muddy the waters so to speak, but tires have the single most influence on vehicle dynamics and are entirely consumable...and allowed to be changed in most SCCA classes. Everyone is basing opinions on how a track is going to fare in competition, yet we are handicapping only some of them in these comparisons.

Wouldn't you like to see how a 1SS would fare against the GT350 with the same tires?

Motortrend has already shown willingness to switch tires on a head to head, why not do it for all vehicles when putting up lap times.

If you want to see how fast your car is with different tires slap em on there and head to a track. I'm only interested in these cars "as equipped" times. I want to know how they perform off the showroom floor as the manufacturer engineered them.

[Memphis]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I also didn't see the camaro SS1lE tested against the GT350

It's no coincidence that there is no GT350 to be found in any reviews/comparisons with the SS.

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Who drove them last year? The year before? Do you see my point? These aren't pro drivers.

But they are better than average. You seem to think they are amateurs. These guys have been driving cars for years.

The data is quite relevant. As I said on the mustang forum give or take 2 seconds from each individual car compared to another and you have your range.

Either way they give a good indication of where you are price to performance wise.

The GTPP is not a good buy stock in that matter.


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[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Thor142

If you want to see how fast your car is with different tires slap em on there and head to a track. I'm only interested in these cars "as equipped" times. I want to know how they perform off the showroom floor as the manufacturer engineered them.

That's fine. There should be no argument then that car A comes with racing tires, carbon fiber wheels, rear seat delete, no AC etc. while car B comes with street tires, full interior, heavy wheels etc.

There should also be no “what if” arguments with people saying….if car B only had stickier tires, or… I bet if car B had Car A’s carbon fiber wheels, then it would be faster.

Putting on the same tires would put an end to all of this BS.

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

It was good data in regards to the GT350R and the 1le, yes. It's all of the other BS comparisons that I have a problem with. Does anyone know how the base GT350 would do against the 1le? We have an idea, but we don't really know how close they would be in some of these comparisons.



Do we really know that the 1le V6 would be quicker around this track than a GTPP? Nope, we have a guess...but that's it.



It wouldn't hurt my feelings either way, but the data cannot support any conclusion on such comparisons.

It will always be faster around the track than the GTPP. That's what a better suspension setup and tires do for you.

It's also a lot lighter and has better weight distribution.

With a tire swap they will change things. But these cars are tested from the showroom floor. No changes.

It is what it is.



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[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

That's fine. There should be no argument then that car A comes with racing tires, carbon fiber wheels, rear seat delete, no AC etc. while car B comes with street tires, full interior, heavy wheels etc.

There should also be no “what if” arguments with people saying….if car B only had stickier tires, or… I bet if car B had Car A’s carbon fiber wheels, then it would be faster.

Putting on the same tires would put an end to all of this BS.

Correct. Thats just butt hurt and excuses.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Memphis43

But they are better than average. You seem to think they are amateurs. These guys have been driving cars for years.

The data is quite relevant. As I said on the mustang forum give or take 2 seconds from each individual car compared to another and you have your range.

Either way they give a good indication of where you are price to performance wise.

The GTPP is not a good buy stock in that matter.


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2 seconds is significant. You can do the same with different track conditions and different DA.

They give an indication, but they cannot always tell you decisively which is a better performer.

I trust a pro driver far better than an amateurs….which they are. They may have more experience, but they will not push the vehicles to the brink like a pro would. They will give a good indication of what other armatures can do, but will not tell us which one truly is faster.

A motorcycle slaughters cars in the price per performance metric. A majority don’t buy a vehicle based solely on performance. While the GTPP may not be a heavyweight on the stock rubber around a track, It most certainly is no slouch.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Correct. Thats just butt hurt and excuses.

I agree.

I still stand by my desire to see cars tested with the same shoes however.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Last year the ATS-V beat the GT PP by 5.4 seconds. I would imagine the regular SS would be pretty much about the same based on all the tests.. How V compared to M4.. How the SS compared to M4.. Etc.

I don't find it difficult to believe that a v6 1LE with SS suspension could be within 6 or so seconds of the SS.

Yes, bench racing.. At least multiple data points are thrown in. Lol.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

I trust a pro driver far better than an amateurs….which they are. They may have more experience, but they will not push the vehicles to the brink like a pro would. They will give a good indication of what other armatures can do, but will not tell us which one truly is faster.

These guys are not amateurs. They are professional drivers because they get paid to drive. Not professional race car drivers, but they are professional drivers none the less. They have been driving professionally for decades, and when the magazines do these tests, they usually use the more/most experienced drivers they have to get the most accurate results. To call them amateurs is not at all correct. They drive for a living, and they drive performance cars in performance situations a heck of a lot more than the rest of us. Even the most dedicated track rat doesn't have near the experience that these guys have. Why? It's their job, they do it for a living, which makes them a professional, btw.

[whiteboyblues2001]

2016 Car & Driver VIR Lightning Lap videos.....enjoy!!!

1LE V6

1LE SS

GT350R

C7 Grand Sport

ACR