[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

How the **** is asking whether the Camaro has run faster than a particular time by a Mustang a troll when its posted in a"Vs 2018 Mustang" thread. You have to be the most hypersensitive fanboy I have come across besides "thepill".

The Camaro has had 3 yrs of fall/winters to run in. Some of the guys who are posting the fastest times frequent this thread. I asked a legit question without knowing the answer. I had not seen a faster pass from the camaro with those mods, but I'm not upto date on what the Camaro has best run.

My responses to Ultra and Snow were matter of fact and not condescending in the slightest, I don't believe they took it that way, but if they did it was not my intention.

Why do you even care? you are the guy who takes his car to the track to not try. Yet you get the most defensive about things that apparently matter little to you.

First off, I AM a fan of the Camaro. Definitely. I'd pick the Camaro any day over the Mustang. SO if you wanna call me a "fanboy" then so be it. I don't give a rats ass. And I have no idea who "the pill" is.

Second, it was a troll comment. Because when you got an answer you decided to be a smartass about it instead of accepting the answer. And I'll repeat, you did the exact same thing when I asked you the question. You gave a direct smartass criticism to Ultra and you were condescending. Now if you're that oblivious to your own damn attitude then fine. But don't sit here acting all innocent when you get called on it. I posted your comment about Ultra a couple times at least. Anyone can see that you were being condescending. And if you weren't, then why did you take my question to you the way you did?

Third, I do take my car to the track and no, I don't try. The fact that my not trying landed me an ET and MPH that a stock Mustang needs perfectly ideal conditions and a pro driver launching and shifting the hell out of it just to still NOT manage to pull off tells me that the S550 Mustang even after all this time is still pathetic. And even if it could manage to duplicate my novice times, which it can't, it still would be nothing more than a one trick pony at it's very best. And the fact that the Mustang is the only one of the Big Three that still can't run a decent time without perfect conditions says a lot. So next time you really wanna know if a Camaro can do this or that, maybe you should consider the multitude of limitations the Mustang has because at it's best it is still the slowest overall.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

The new gt is a great performer. But the SS is still in the game. That’s how I see it. Pretty impressive for a drivetrain introduced almost 5 years ago.

I might have to give the GT a slight edge NA bolt on all things equal. But nothing that can’t easily be overcome. And when it comes to heads cam NA power output the lt1 is beast already reaching nearly 600 rwhp with ported stock castings. Then after that it’s not cube limited like the coyote. NA to NA in the end lt1 wins. Now boost is a different story. On the stock bottom end the mustang is superior. It also doesn’t have as many fueling issues. The lt1 can get it done but you need pistons and expensive fueling upgrades to compete with a more basic FI coyote setup. But in the end it all comes down to money

I'm not impressed with the GT because I think it's too late in the game. I liked the S197 Coyotes and what Ford did from 2011 to 2014. But I am not a fan of the S550 from a performance perspective. Even now, if it does happen to be faster, that will all change when the SS gets the A10 trans at which point we'll see thing either switch to the Camaro side once again or it'll be too close for either to declare a victory. What I think Ford should have done was they should have upped the GT to where the SS couldn't possibly catch it with the A10, built the PP2 properly with coolers, dropped the Shelby, and then brought out the GT500. But the fact that they didn't tells me they're still fighting with kiddie gloves. Perhaps the next Gen Mustang will be better. But I don't care how many YT videos these guys post of Mustangs doing whatever with this or that mod, nothing short of the GT500 is going to impress me. And that thing better be a killer.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

The new gt is a great performer. But the SS is still in the game. That’s how I see it. Pretty impressive for a drivetrain introduced almost 5 years ago.

I might have to give the GT a slight edge NA bolt on all things equal. But nothing that can’t easily be overcome. And when it comes to heads cam NA power output the lt1 is beast already reaching nearly 600 rwhp with ported stock castings. Then after that it’s not cube limited like the coyote. NA to NA in the end lt1 wins. Now boost is a different story. On the stock bottom end the mustang is superior. It also doesn’t have as many fueling issues. The lt1 can get it done but you need pistons and expensive fueling upgrades to compete with a more basic FI coyote setup. But in the end it all comes down to money

spot on, couldn’t agree more.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

First off, I AM a fan of the Camaro. Definitely. I'd pick the Camaro any day over the Mustang. SO if you wanna call me a "fanboy" then so be it. I don't give a rats ass. And I have no idea who "the pill" is.

Second, it was a troll comment. Because when you got an answer you decided to be a smartass about it instead of accepting the answer. And I'll repeat, you did the exact same thing when I asked you the question. You gave a direct smartass criticism to Ultra and you were condescending. Now if you're that oblivious to your own damn attitude then fine. But don't sit here acting all innocent when you get called on it. I posted your comment about Ultra a couple times at least. Anyone can see that you were being condescending. And if you weren't, then why did you take my question to you the way you did?

Third, I do take my car to the track and no, I don't try. The fact that my not trying landed me an ET and MPH that a stock Mustang needs perfectly ideal conditions and a pro driver launching and shifting the hell out of it just to still NOT manage to pull off tells me that the S550 Mustang even after all this time is still pathetic. And even if it could manage to duplicate my novice times, which it can't, it still would be nothing more than a one trick pony at it's very best. And the fact that the Mustang is the only one of the Big Three that still can't run a decent time without perfect conditions says a lot. So next time you really wanna know if a Camaro can do this or that, maybe you should consider the multitude of limitations the Mustang has because at it's best it is still the slowest overall.

You keep fighting the good fight.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

You keep fighting the good fight.

I definitely will next time you make a failed attempt to troll.

[BlaqWhole]

What is the possibility of us seeing an actual H2H with the SS 1LE vs the GT PP2?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm not impressed with the GT because I think it's too late in the game. I liked the S197 Coyotes and what Ford did from 2011 to 2014. But I am not a fan of the S550 from a performance perspective. Even now, if it does happen to be faster, that will all change when the SS gets the A10 trans at which point we'll see thing either switch to the Camaro side once again or it'll be too close for either to declare a victory. What I think Ford should have done was they should have upped the GT to where the SS couldn't possibly catch it with the A10, built the PP2 properly with coolers, dropped the Shelby, and then brought out the GT500. But the fact that they didn't tells me they're still fighting with kiddie gloves. Perhaps the next Gen Mustang will be better. But I don't care how many YT videos these guys post of Mustangs doing whatever with this or that mod, nothing short of the GT500 is going to impress me. And that thing better be a killer.

My guess is that the GT350 will wrap up in the next model year. At that point you will see the 480 hp Bullitt motor on the standard GT and the coolers on the PP2. The 500 will then appear but the GT will not be a threat. Look for a Mach1 package with another bump in HP as well.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

My guess is that the GT350 will wrap up in the next model year. At that point you will see the 480 hp Bullitt motor on the standard GT and the coolers on the PP2. The 500 will then appear but the GT will not be a threat. Look for a Mach1 package with another bump in HP as well.

With all the quarter mile talk, and considering the obvious inclusion of the A10 in those conversations, we don't talk much about the manuals.

Would it be out of line expecting the Tremec to trickle down in there too? Ford's approach this generation makes me feel like it is out of line, but I am not sure if Ford is as rigid as GM or if there is a precedence for things like this set in previous generations.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

With all the quarter mile talk, and considering the obvious inclusion of the A10 in those conversations, we don't talk much about the manuals.

Would it be out of line expecting the Tremec to trickle down in there too? Ford's approach this generation makes me feel like it is out of line, but I am not sure if Ford is as rigid as GM or if there is a precedence for things like this set in previous generations.

No idea on the Tremec, it would be nice but the MT82 is improving compared to the earlier versions. That being said if 1/4 mile is your thing the A10 will be your choice. I do know that an automatic transmission in my Boss would ruin the car, so I hope that the manuals continue to be an option.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

No idea on the Tremec, it would be nice but the MT82 is improving compared to the earlier versions. That being said if 1/4 mile is your thing the A10 will be your choice. I do know that an automatic transmission in my Boss would ruin the car, so I hope that the manuals continue to be an option.

I think the Tremec should replace the MT82 right now. There have been versions of it that are better than others but honestly no version is as good as the Tremec. Just scrap it already Ford. I also see a trackpack version of the PP2 coming with coolers.

The Bullitt engine being the base GT engine sounds like a no brainer but what will the 2020 SS and Chally have by then?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

What is the possibility of us seeing an actual H2H with the SS 1LE vs the GT PP2?

I would like to see that as well.

Originally Posted by newmoon

My guess is that the GT350 will wrap up in the next model year. At that point you will see the 480 hp Bullitt motor on the standard GT and the coolers on the PP2. The 500 will then appear but the GT will not be a threat. Look for a Mach1 package with another bump in HP as well.

This I would also guess is a very realistic possibility.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I think the Tremec should replace the MT82 right now. There have been versions of it that are better than others but honestly no version is as good as the Tremec. Just scrap it already Ford. I also see a trackpack version of the PP2 coming with coolers.

The Bullitt engine being the base GT engine sounds like a no brainer but what will the 2020 SS and Chally have by then?

Well the Challenger engine is a mystery, the Camaro will still plod along with the LT1. When there was no update done at the refresh I think the LT1 will soldier on until the 6th gen is finished. I don't see them replacing it like GM did with the C6 when it from LS2 to LS3

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I think the Tremec should replace the MT82 right now. There have been versions of it that are better than others but honestly no version is as good as the Tremec. Just scrap it already Ford. I also see a trackpack version of the PP2 coming with coolers.

The Bullitt engine being the base GT engine sounds like a no brainer but what will the 2020 SS and Chally have by then?

There's no way Ford would do that. From an investment standpoint - no way. The opportunity was when the S550 came out or with the 2018 Refresh/Redesign. Probably the best opportunity was for 2018:

1. The TR-3160 was completely validated through the GT350 and wouldn't take much to further qualify it for the Coyote G3.

2. The TR-3160 was already integrated into the S550 platform via the GT350.

3. The 2011-2014 and 2015-2017 MT-82's were largely the same, with only small improvements over time. So, the return on investment into that project over those years should have been enough to call the business case a wraps (especially with the sales numbers the S550 brought).

With the 2018, the MT82 is basically re-invented... So, there is a significant re-investment by Ford. I would expect the MT82 to stay until the S650/Gen7 Mustang.
https://youtu.be/s7rUZKhdMOM

History indicates the Bullitt upgrades will trickle down to the GT. At that point, Camaro will become the underdog. Right now, things are pretty equal from a power standpoint, engine vs. engine.

Camaro is hard to tell right now... Mainly because the sales. Before the 2019 refresh, I would have said, for sure, the DOHC V8 would make its way to the Camaro at some point/way. The pre-2019 Camaros were already a compromise towards a performance car, hurting overall sales, but now you have a refresh that is very polarizing and seems to be targeting a very select audience. I do not think the 2019 Camaro exterior refresh is equal to the 2018 Mustang exterior refresh. The Camaro went through a complete change of the front and a significant change in the rear. The Mustang went through a moderate change of the front and a minor change of the rear. The character of the Camaro has been completely changed, where the Mustang was only modified.

Challenger will likely soldier-on with what they have, like they have been doing for the last decade, for a few more years. Don't expect changes until they, maybe, decide to invest into a new chassis (I'd love to see a Challenger in Mustang size/weight). On the surface, the sales numbers for Challenger/Charger make the vehicle look like "they got it figured out", but if you look into the entire picture, it's more like "riding the wave".

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I think the Tremec should replace the MT82 right now. There have been versions of it that are better than others but honestly no version is as good as the Tremec. Just scrap it already Ford. I also see a trackpack version of the PP2 coming with coolers.

The Bullitt engine being the base GT engine sounds like a no brainer but what will the 2020 SS and Chally have by then?

The Tremec should have replaced the MT-82 in all their cars a looong time ago.

The fact that they didn't trust it the GT350 says it all. And the Tremec in the GT-350 is actually a lower spec'd one compared to the TR-6060. So Ford didn't even see the need to give their owners more headroom.

They say the MT-82 is revised, smooth, blah blah blah. No, it's just cheap!! It's about the bottom line. Let's put the cheap crap in the base and go with something just a little bit better for the higher dollar cars.

As for the engines, I look down on the Coyote and Voodoo. IMO, they are unfinished and unreliable. And being DOHC is not the be-all and end all. Not when Ford seems to be issuing short block replacements like there's no tomorrow.

The old push rod LT1 has a lot of potential left. GM can continue to improve and run with it for years to come.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

The Tremec should have replaced the MT-82 in all their cars a looong time ago.

The fact that they didn't trust it the GT350 says it all. And the Tremec in the GT-350 is actually a lower spec'd one compared to the TR-6060. So Ford didn't even see the need to give their owners more headroom.

They say the MT-82 is revised, smooth, blah blah blah. No, it's just cheap!! It's about the bottom line. Let's put the cheap crap in the base and go with something just a little bit better for the higher dollar cars.

As for the engines, I look down on the Coyote and Voodoo. IMO, they are unfinished and unreliable. And being DOHC is not the be-all and end all. Not when Ford seems to be issuing short block replacements like there's no tomorrow.

The old push rod LT1 has a lot of potential left. GM can continue to improve and run with it for years to come.

GM, I think, has taken the OHV/push-rod engine about as far as it can go, with mass production business reason. Think about the displacement: increased displacement is needed to get the needed competitive power in OHV form. Going forward, you need more fuel efficiency, similar/lower weight, tight packaging, and more power. The options to increase power are, from a staying NA OHV perspective, increased displacement, increased RPM and increased efficiency. They are already very near or at the ceiling for RPM, efficiency and displacement before stepping into an area that becomes either unreasonable for business or negativly effects another aspect.

The Gen3 Coyote seems to have reliability issues and, of course, the Voodoo. I blame the spray bores (suspect cheapened-out, high-volume processing) and vibrations in those cases. But the Gen1 and Gen2 Coyotes and Roadrunner were very good engines.

[ST1LE]

Yeah, the reason I posed the question about the Tremec is Ford doesn't have any really attractive manual offerings right now.

To get the Tremec, you have to sign up for the Voodoo...no thanks. Pre-Gen 3 Coyote you could geta reliable engine, but with the MT-82....again no thanks.

Would be awesome to see them offer something like a Mach 1 with a worked out Gen 3 Coyote with a power bump and the Tremec from the GT350.

THEN.....I would be a serious potential buyer if ADMs dont get in the way.