[Curr]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Far too often have I seem this. From all kinds of forums (GMI, FIN, M6G, C5, Challengertalk, SVTP, LS1tech, etc. all of which I post or have posted on) where some people feel that in order to actually enjoy the car of their choice, they also have to hate it's competition and not appreciate that that competition is even there.

Then it gets to a point where they even openly claim to hate the people who even drive them, attempting at every turn to belittle them in some twisted way to "elevate" their own position. I'll stop before this turns into some kind of rant.

So I digress, we have the best performing American Pony cars that have ever been built, no matter what logo rests in the grill, drive it, enjoy it, love it. That's what they're there for.

Someone on here put it more eloquently than this, but summed up it was "some people have their self worth tied up in their cars, and can't bear to have the light shining on something else".

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by Noob

yes it´s more the old tranny than the coyote V8.
If the 10speed auto comes in a year it will be on par with a 2SS, imo.
They track the 4T and the V8 at our Sachsenring and found the T4 all in all more balanced and better for that. But car is still to heavy (M4 weighs under 3600lbs). With a tune it can reach 400hp and torque curve is muuch better.

Blaming the auto tranny on courses that should be run with an M6 is irrelevant. An auto is useless for anything but driving mindlessly in a straight line. Manuals should be compared. No one with any soul is going to test drive one of these cars with an automagic. Could you imagine Randy Pobst running a track with an automagic when there is a perfectly viable M6 option? Laugh.

[umatac1]

I really like the new stangs look. I did test drive it 3 times but did not pull the trigger.

Congrats on the 2016 Camaro performance.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Oh please. Nitrous doesn't even count. It isn't "real power." It's a cheat. You can send Honda's into the 11's with a big enough shot if the motor holds. I'm really anti-nitrous

Is it all FI you're against, or just chemical supercharging?

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Blaming the auto tranny on courses that should be run with an M6 is irrelevant. An auto is useless for anything but driving mindlessly in a straight line. Manuals should be compared. No one with any soul is going to test drive one of these cars with an automagic. Could you imagine Randy Pobst running a track with an automagic when there is a perfectly viable M6 option? Laugh.

You are aware some people are physically incapable of driving a manual or find it extremely painful due to knee/hip/ankle damage..right?

I understand that people are very strongly opinionated about their transmission of choice..but for some it's not a choice.

Chevy and Mopar are smart to offer a viable track package or track performance with the new automatics, Ford should follow as well.

[shaffe]

I don't think anyone should be surprised at the results and if they arethey should get off the drugs lol. If anybody thought the Mustang had a chance of winning this head 2 head they need help lol. Everything pointed to Camaro victory and that is what MT concluded as well.

Originally Posted by tpmotorsports

thanks for sharing this

the only surprise to me was "Camaro was rougher going down highway, higher wind and road noise"

with the new platform, body and countless hours of wind tunnel didn't really expect that. Altho road noise could be a result of the Run Flats.

That shocked me as well. I thought for sure being an Alpha car it would be more refined, not as refined as a cadillac but have a shot at being nicer than the mustang. For the people that don't just consider performance that could swing them to the Mustang.

Originally Posted by Number 3

Anyone that wants to continue to doubt the visibility issue needs to look no further than the front view pictures of both cars in the article.

Mustang.......driver's chin is above the steering wheel

Camaro........driver's nose is above the steering wheel

And my point all along has been that SS buyers will forgive this as long as they have the better performing car.

People shopping the Camaro because it's a sporty coupe probably won't be nearly as forgiving.

Read this article from a neutral POV and it's basically telling you that the Camaro is the better performance car but the Mustang is the better coupe. Quieter, more comfortable, a more compliant ride, and easier to see out of.

Remember when you get away from the enthusiast website, the best performing car isn't necessarily the best selling car.

And as usual..............I hope I'm wrong.

That was what I took away from the article as well. And that shocked me. Never would I think that a review would imply the Mustang is the better cruiser.(mostly from the last reviews bashing the ancient suspension haha) But I was shocked at some of the compliments they gave the mustang on it's interior and how it felt going down the road.

Originally Posted by LSLT_Powered26

I can't believe motor trend said the mustang interior was better. They can't be serious with that comment. Mustang is full of hard plastic everywhere you look. Plus it was GT PP Premium interior against a base 1SS interior. Still was a nice read tho.

Different strokes for different folks.

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Great cars, both of them. Camaro holds up the enthusiast's flag high in all trims.

Mustang can, but mostly with it's Bullitts, Machs, Shelbys, etc. Their mass market models seem to be geared for just that, the "masses".

These two cars are great in that they always give us a reason to keep wanting to drive. They keep driving an enjoyable experience, instead of letting cars become mere appliances and driving a chore.

Yep! props to ford and GM for still offering fun to drive vehicles.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

You are aware some people are physically incapable of driving a manual or find it extremely painful due to knee/hip/ankle damage..right?

I understand that people are very strongly opinionated about their transmission of choice..but for some it's not a choice.

Chevy and Mopar are smart to offer a viable track package or track performance with the new automatics, Ford should follow as well.

True if Ford offers a S550 GT500 they need to offer it with an auto as well

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Is it all FI you're against, or just chemical supercharging?

Just nitrous. If it isn't "always there" it doesn't count in my opinion. FI is awesome.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

You are aware some people are physically incapable of driving a manual or find it extremely painful due to knee/hip/ankle damage..right?

I understand that people are very strongly opinionated about their transmission of choice..but for some it's not a choice.

Chevy and Mopar are smart to offer a viable track package or track performance with the new automatics, Ford should follow as well.

If you are that incapable of driving a manual due to pain, you probably shouldn't be driving, period, but I digress. Then again, the physical incapability to drive has never stopped anyone from getting a driver's license. I doubt there are many one-legged race car drivers out there. Don't you?

Automatics do not perform around a track. They are straight line vehicles. A manual, when driven properly, will decimate an automatic. They don't belong in track-oriented types of cars because the shift points will never be optimal, no matter how good they are programmed. They are not faster, and won't be anytime soon, so it is an invalid comparison.

This isn't an opinion. Automatic transmissions are not used in a track-oriented cars for performance sake. They are there for sales. Most Americans are incapable of driving a manual transmission. It is simply for sales numbers and revenue. If cars were designed solely for performance, track cars wouldn't be offered in an automatic.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

If you are that incapable of driving a manual due to pain, you probably shouldn't be driving, period, but I digress. Then again, the physical incapability to drive has never stopped anyone from getting a driver's license. I doubt there are many one-legged race car drivers out there. Don't you?

Automatics do not perform around a track. They are straight line vehicles. A manual, when driven properly, will decimate an automatic. They don't belong in track-oriented types of cars because the shift points will never be optimal, no matter how good they are programmed. They are not faster, and won't be anytime soon, so it is an invalid comparison.

This isn't an opinion. Automatic transmissions are not used in a track-oriented cars for performance sake. They are there for sales. Most Americans are incapable of driving a manual transmission. It is simply for sales numbers and revenue. If cars were designed solely for performance, track cars wouldn't be offered in an automatic.

ATS-V A8 sedan turned a better lap time than the M6 coupe. Just let that sit in. A few more years and manuals will disappear from the fast track times. Times are changing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

If you are that incapable of driving a manual due to pain, you probably shouldn't be driving, period, but I digress. Then again, the physical incapability to drive has never stopped anyone from getting a driver's license. I doubt there are many one-legged race car drivers out there. Don't you?

Automatics do not perform around a track. They are straight line vehicles. A manual, when driven properly, will decimate an automatic. They don't belong in track-oriented types of cars because the shift points will never be optimal, no matter how good they are programmed. They are not faster, and won't be anytime soon, so it is an invalid comparison.

This isn't an opinion. Automatic transmissions are not used in a track-oriented cars for performance sake. They are there for sales. Most Americans are incapable of driving a manual transmission. It is simply for sales numbers and revenue. If cars were designed solely for performance, track cars wouldn't be offered in an automatic.

Let me just run this by you though, say you wanted a ZL1, but lets say you blew your left knee out a couple of times when you were younger and having to operate a clutch gives you a great deal of pain. Good thing that ZL1 is also offered in a auto right?

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Let me just run this by you though, say you wanted a ZL1, but lets say you blew your left knee out a couple of times when you were younger and having to operate a clutch gives you a great deal of pain. Good thing that ZL1 is also offered in a auto right?

No, by his own statement because your left leg is comprised you have lost your ability to drive and need to be limited to bumming rides, Uber, taxis and public transportation.

[mako22]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

If you are that incapable of driving a manual due to pain, you probably shouldn't be driving, period, but I digress. Then again, the physical incapability to drive has never stopped anyone from getting a driver's license. I doubt there are many one-legged race car drivers out there. Don't you?

Automatics do not perform around a track. They are straight line vehicles. A manual, when driven properly, will decimate an automatic. They don't belong in track-oriented types of cars because the shift points will never be optimal, no matter how good they are programmed. They are not faster, and won't be anytime soon, so it is an invalid comparison.

This isn't an opinion. Automatic transmissions are not used in a track-oriented cars for performance sake. They are there for sales. Most Americans are incapable of driving a manual transmission. It is simply for sales numbers and revenue. If cars were designed solely for performance, track cars wouldn't be offered in an automatic.

[Eric SS]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Oh please. Nitrous doesn't even count. It isn't "real power." It's a cheat. You can send Honda's into the 11's with a big enough shot if the motor holds. I'm really anti-nitrous

OK, so nitrous doesn't count just because you say it doesn't. I don't recall you putting that disclaimer on your original post. You said there is no way a Camaro could get into the 10's without opening it up, and I gave you a solution. In fact, you gave yourself another solution by saying you would FI your engine. How is nitrous any more "cheating" than forcing more air into your engine than it can suck in itself which is exactly what a supercharger does? Both just raise the efficiency of the engine by adding more oxygen and gas. Same thing, just a different delivery system.

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Just nitrous. If it isn't "always there" it doesn't count in my opinion. FI is awesome.

It is always there if you want it to be. I had a bottle heater that automatically turned on when I turned the car on and remote opener right in my center console on my 4th Gen that took 5 seconds to open if needed which could be done before I even pulled out of my garage. And I'm not going to blow through a 10lb. bottle just driving around or making a couple of passes down the strip.

EDIT: and why so much hate on this forum? People seem incapable of coexisting here and think that there opinion is the only one that matters.

[mcsoul]

There's some serious internet manual transmission driving skillz on display up in here!