[90503]

Originally Posted by Blazin383

I have yet to read a review or watch a vlog of the Gen6 where the reviewer doesn't have to go on for 5 minutes about how terrible the outward visibility is on the Camaro. I don't get it! I've owned dozens of cars and driven many more than that, and I just don't think the visibility is that bad in the Camaro.

My most recent 2012 Grand Sport Corvette was significantly harder to see out of and the 2008 Infinity G-37 I traded for my Gen5 Camaro didn't seem like it was noticeably better than the Camaro.

I drove both the Gen5 and Gen6 and feel perfectly comfortable with the visibility in both! What's the big deal? Sometimes I think these automobile reviewers feed off of each other and feel obligated to howl about the same issues so they don't come across as lacking in their review.

It's just like the back seat room! Every reviewer feels a need to climb in the back seat and demonstrate the lack of leg and head room. It's a two door sports car for crying out loud! It was never intended to be a minivan...get over it already!

I read more than one review where they called the Gen6 interior cramped and/or claustrophobic! Are you kidding me? The same reviewer will climb into a Miata or an SLK and never say a word about the fact you can't even move in either of their interiors, nor would you have any place to put your jacket unless you are wearing it.

Please, if your going to write a review about the Camaro, review it against what it is designed to be... a straight up hot rod muscle/sports car for those that are young at heart and don't care that they can't fit the family in the back seat or that it feels more like an exotic sports car from the inside than it does a minivan!

Hey, OP! Guess what? Here's a review that doesn't regurgitate the drivel about bad visibility, etc....Enjoy!

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...llence-awards/

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

I don't think so.....the first will make matters worse...and both render usable trunk space to nearly 0...

And that's assuming that they decide to change it at all...We don't know if they think it effects sales...and we don't know if they're happy with sales or not...they seem to be, so far.

I'm talking about the slope. Which is the same on both pictures. However the second shows the design change where they incorporated more glass to allow more light into the cabin and better visibility.

That slope is similar to what the mustang is doing and will allow the Camaro to lose the rear haunches that bring the rear deck high up.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Techn9cian805

No. you quoted me too soon, I edited my post on to why I believe it outsold the last gen.
also there is no data to prove that it isn't

You are correct, no data to prove that, only history of the previous model having at least as bad visibility, and leading it's class in sales

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Everyone can't be right in a debate if the debate is based on REAL facts that are brought forward....

I've never subscribed to the "Camaro is overpriced" theory...however, I can see plainly that it's the more expensive option. Not only that, Ford is slapping huge discounts on the Mustang, and selling tons more fleet cars. I believe whole-heartedly that those two factors are significantly more influential in the marketplace than the glass area from a function standpoint.

I totally understand that some people may feel uncomfortable driving it because of the design. This is not a Malibu, and everyone has varied levels of skill, and comfort levels. The Camaro requires a bit more out of a driver...But this issue IS being blown out of proportion, no doubt in my mind.

And I'd like to take this moment to say that I don't consider anyone wrong for not agreeing with the decision Camaro team made to go with the chopped roof design...

...but I do wonder why some who are so vehemently opposed to the greenhouse design and visibility...bought one, anyways?...Is it because, ultimately, you didn't mind? If so - that supports the decision making process that Camaro team went through, and renders the entire thread moot....food for thought.

I don't think it's overpriced for what you get. There's also not much cash on the hood right now either. But I don't think that cash on the hood is going to help propel the Camaro ahead of the mustang either.

The mustang just appeals to more buyers this generation.

Those that have bought a Camaro that are not opposed to the difference in visibility because in their minds there is something that's outweighs that con.

HOWEVER, sales are a direct reflection of how many people DO mind.

So, no, it doesn't render this thread moot.

[The_Driver]

Originally Posted by Memphis43

They are probably going to move to one of these two designs for the rear slope and window in the future



Instead of this




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And, to think they were based on the same platform. However, the 2nd gen made things worse in the ergonomics department even though the design echoed the beautiful Ferrari's of the 1960's.

The designers of the 1st gen F-body were frustrated that they were not able to get a lower cowl for the new F-body. They had to borrow the more pedestrian upright X-body front cowl section even though the latter was introduced a year later for '68.

When time for the 2nd gen F-body development came up, they insisted on getting that longer, lower sleeker look they had originally wanted for the Camaro and Firebird. So, they shifted the greenhouse section rearward on the body 3" and totally redesigned the front cowl section. This enabled them to get a even longer hood shorter rear deck design theme. The change to one piece flush side windows with longer doors and a semi fastback rear window completed the new design. It looked (and still looks fantastic) and was very modern for the '70 model year.

Personally, I think the 2nd gen F-body is one of the most beautiful designs of all time, especially the early models.

[Techn9cian805]

Originally Posted by The_Driver

And, to think they were based on the same platform. However, the 2nd gen made things worse in the ergonomics department even though the design echoed the beautiful Ferrari's of the 1960's.

The designers of the 1st gen F-body were frustrated that they were not able to get a lower cowl for the new F-body. They had to borrow the more pedestrian upright X-body front cowl section even though the latter was introduced a year later for '68.

When time for the 2nd gen F-body development came up, they insisted on getting that longer, lower sleeker look they had originally wanted for the Camaro and Firebird. So, they shifted the greenhouse section rearward on the body 3" and totally redesigned the front cowl section. This enabled them to get a even longer hood shorter rear deck design theme. The change to one piece flush side windows with longer doors and a semi fastback rear window completed the new design. It looked (and still looks fantastic) and was very modern for the '70 model year.

Personally, I think the 2nd gen F-body is one of the most beautiful designs of all time, especially the early models.

I'm not all that familiar with the 2nd gen, but I will agree, it is a beauty. especially that silver one posted above, however the blue one's front bumper looks funky

[Indydriver]

FWIW, Spring is springing here and it was near 70. So of course I drove my 5th Gen convertible to the golf club. On the way home, I needed gas so got off the highway and interacted with some folks. I got at least five shout outs of "nice car" and thumbs up from other drivers. This just doesn't happen with the vast majority of cars! And yet, it happens with this design that so many have so many problems with. There is no doubt in my mind that the public thinks this design (at least my two year old car) is different, exciting, and set apart from your typical American driver. It is truly a profound reaction. So, what does this mean?

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Indydriver

FWIW, Spring is springing here and it was near 70. So of course I drove my 5th Gen convertible to the golf club. On the way home, I needed gas so got off the highway and interacted with some folks. I got at least five shout outs of "nice car" and thumbs up from other drivers. This just doesn't happen with the vast majority of cars! And yet, it happens with this design that so many have so many problems with. There is no doubt in my mind that the public thinks this design (at least my two year old car) is different, exciting, and set apart from your typical American driver. It is truly a profound reaction. So, what does this mean?

It means that you have a bad a@@ car!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

That leads to 2002 all over again or a Camaro priced more than the Corvette...............unless the Mustang starts selling 500,000 or so per year to get you 10 to 1.

At it's current price point, the Camaro probably needs a volume about double the Corvette.

Do you honestly think this GM would discontinue the Camaro? Planning for gen7 will begin soon, No?

Motor Trend COTY, BMW-eating hunk of A-game American Engineering, transcending the pony car class, etc.

[alini]

Who cares what other peoples opinions are. You own the car, drive it. They dont like it, dont buy it.

When you let people use their opinions to sway YOUR choice, thats called politics

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Do you honestly think this GM would discontinue the Camaro? Planning for gen7 will begin soon, No?

Motor Trend COTY, BMW-eating hunk of A-game American Engineering, transcending the pony car class, etc.

Yes absolutely.........if it is a money losing low selling model it will react. Now hopefully that would be a quick redo like the Malibu.

Make no mistake. GM is not about giving money away. The new GM will not tolerate money losers that can't earn their capital.

So yes, I do. Awards don't provide a return on capital.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes absolutely.........if it is a money losing low selling model it will react. Now hopefully that would be a quick redo like the Malibu.

Make no mistake. GM is not about giving money away. The new GM will not tolerate money losers that can't earn their capital.

So yes, I do. Awards don't provide a return on capital.

Agree. I just don't see them walking away unless the segment as a whole dives. They've obviously put a lot into this car. I'd expect adjustments, even major, if they aren't satisfied with the result.

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Yes absolutely.........if it is a money losing low selling model it will react. Now hopefully that would be a quick redo like the Malibu.



Make no mistake. GM is not about giving money away. The new GM will not tolerate money losers that can't earn their capital.



So yes, I do. Awards don't provide a return on capital.

That's right

[MrChrisLS3]

Well, if it's true that they improved visibility in this gen, even a little bit over the last, and considering the fuss that was made over that car, then how well it sold, I highly doubt that visibility would be what brings this car down.

I see three, maybe four factors at play here that may explain why this car is "jumping" off the lot like they did in 2010.

First, the Camaro isn't coming off an 8 year hiatus. Add that when the gen 5 was released, it was a home run design that, I'm sorry Ford fans, but it made the Mustang's first attempt at retro just look plain silly.

Second, and along these lines, the Gen 6, while truly a different car, new platform, new power, is still perceived by many, even some on these forums, as an evolution of the car. Again, not like the 'rebirth' the gen 5 was at that time. Add to this that many dealers still have '15's on the lot with heavy incentives attached to them. Then let's factor in that most people that bought a Camaro in '12 or later still probably have 2 to 3 years, if not more, left on their note, and if they went 0 down and 72, are probably still in negative equity.

Third, the current Mustang has a year head start, and yes, this one is a well sorted car. The latest Mustang is a nice car by any standard, looks, interior, performance. No question that Camaro vs Mustang is a more difficult choice for many. Not to mention that Dodge has pretty good pony car out there too. While I believe, as do many people that actually get paid to state their opinion, that the Camaro is far and away the better car, to the general public, that matters less.

And the possible fourth, really more of a question for discussion. Is it possible that GM is shooting themselves in the foot today, in terms of sales, by revealing the 1LE and ZL1 so soon after initial release of the Gen 6? I mean, I know that most of us knew they were coming, eventually, but are they missing some of those "got to have it now" sales? I mean, sure it may stop some from buying a GT350 or 350R, but now they have the '16's on the lots competing not only with discounted '15's, but now definite future product too, talk about a rock and hard place.