02-27-2021, 03:01 PM | #183 | |
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Probably has to do with the fact that manual trans is much more popular in Europe, but yeah, gotta give the Germans props on that.
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02-27-2021, 03:06 PM | #184 | |
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Norm
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03-01-2021, 10:39 AM | #185 | |
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Correct me if I am wrong though, isn't it the same transmission that it originally had vs having to have a new one developed? That could be important when discussing this |
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03-01-2021, 11:30 AM | #186 | |
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Yet R8 V10s and Gallardos had manuals. The truth is, no manufacturer would produce one for what GM set their budget at. My point is that the market is clearly there, and the example is shown to further discredit the manual is dying crowd - especially in expensive sports cars. So GM projected 15% manual sales based on what I will say and stand behind as incorrect and very poor forecasting (again evidenced by total 911 and Corvette manual take rates hovering around 25+%). If they approached Tremec, etc with a budget for a manual based on 25% take rate instead of 15%, one could guess the budget allotment to be certainly higher, and perhaps change the decision outcome. It's all speculation and there is no going back.
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03-01-2021, 11:51 AM | #187 | |
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I know 2 different cars and the Vette is "faster", but for guys like me it is about the driving experience not the flat out speed. I can make my manual car faster but I cannot add a manual to a C8 Vette.
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03-01-2021, 12:01 PM | #188 | |
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03-01-2021, 03:50 PM | #189 | |
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Of course you could definitely extract some crazy lap times from the GT4 even with the manual. But you gotta work for it which is missing from some performance cars today imo
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03-02-2021, 07:59 AM | #190 | |
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Especially considering that I pay to own the car, pay for track time, and pay for all consumables...the absolute best way for ME to get the most out of my money invested, is to increase driver skill, which includes manually controlling the gear selection through a foot operated clutch, and a mechanical shift linkage to the transmission (cable, rod, direct). I do not attend events with any significant amount of cash prizes for winning, nor competitive lapping events - only timed...so absolute fastest lap times are not important to me. Improving my own lap times are, however. BTW, a Z51 C7 M7 lapped quicker than a Z51 C8 DCT at the same track...can't remember the specific track, it was brought up on the Corvette Forum lengthy thread. I think we can all agree, the C7 driver likely had more skill in this scenario...still shows that manuals can be competitive in the right hands.
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03-02-2021, 09:04 AM | #191 | |
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You mentioned they offer manuals in R8, Gallardo, Porsche etc. Well all those are owned by VW so they can share the costs among them and use the same transmission in all of them(I am not sure if it is, totally guessing) |
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03-02-2021, 09:29 AM | #192 | |
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03-02-2021, 09:47 AM | #193 |
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touche - carry on lol
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03-02-2021, 09:59 AM | #194 |
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At the end of the day, GM made a decision to not offer an MT. We can argue until the cows come home about why they made the decision. They’ve told us why they made the decision. Believe them or don’t. I was there when the decision was made, though not part of the decision making team. What Tadge and Ed are saying now is consistent with what they’ve said internally. Understand that there were multiple factors, not just a single factor, and most of them have come up here. Similar discussions took place internally and the decision still came out in favor of no MT.
Some here argue that the decision leaves15 - 20% of volume on the table (the 15-20% of cars that could have been sold as MT if there was one). But, at the end of the day, the plant is running at capacity, so they could not have produced 15 - 20% more cars with any transmission. If less than 100% of the cars are DCT, then the cost of the DCT likely goes up, making the car more expensive, as well as having to engineer, certify, and supply a low volume high cost MT. So, if you’re GM, you haven’t lost any sales, you’re amortizing the cost of the DCT across 100% of your volume, not 85%, and you spent no money tooling up or certifying an MT. If you’re GM, you’re probably good with that.
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03-02-2021, 10:02 AM | #195 |
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I completely fail to understand why anyone who is a car enthusiast would support not having a manual option...
If manuals are old and antiquated, so are DCTs or any geared transmission. The same argument can be made to ditch ICE and transmissions entirely for EVs, especially if someone is using acceleration performance as their basis of argument. I'm not against EVs, I just won't own one for a sports car. An EV would make a killer DD, but I also don't like supporting Chinese battery production, or Cobalt sourcing from the Congo. Some of these we have touched on already. Back on topic - Mach E will sell...I'm sad it got Mustang branded, but I think it will be a hit for Ford fans.
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03-02-2021, 10:19 AM | #196 | |
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