[fastball]

Originally Posted by I`m Batman

Isn't that just another form of HOA? Your taste might not be their taste and vise versa. Aren't HOA board usually are formed by homeowners of that community and there are community HOA meetings to discuss things and decide on things in the community as a community?

That's a legal, dignified definition of being nosy. That's what it comes down to. People in a neighborhood are so nosy about other people's business that they form a board to keep track of everything everyone does to their house, their property.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by I`m Batman

Isn't that just another form of HOA? Your taste might not be their taste and vise versa. Aren't HOA board usually are formed by homeowners of that community and there are community HOA meetings to discuss things and decide on things in the community as a community?

LOL. Yes, I was describing what a HOA actually is.

[fastball]

I remember on the news a while ago someone spent years fighting their HOA over the display of their American flag. And the homeowner was a veteran. He ended up almost going bankrupt fighting his HOA.

Now, I don't care how big his flag was, how long he displayed it, and if it violated every HOA policy in their book. If he wanted to wave his flag and run a 5,000 lumens spotlight on it all night every night he is well within his rights and the HOA should pound salt. He owns the house, the property, and the flag.

[I`m Batman]

What if a "trashy" family won a lotto and then bought a nice house next to yours in the nice quiet neighborhood then decide to put their beat up old trailer out in the front yard and just trashed their house, inside and out. It's their house, their property, they can do what they want, they're not breaking the law. I'm sure no one would be happy except for the new family.

[Emoto]

Originally Posted by I`m Batman

What if a "trashy" family won a lotto and then bought a nice house next to yours in the nice quiet neighborhood then decide to put their beat up old trailer out in the front yard and just trashed their house, inside and out. It's their house, their property, they can do what they want, they're not breaking the law. I'm sure no one would be happy except for the new family.

This is a good argument. But, what about local zoning ordinances? Don't those often cover things like that?

[Camarolover85]

How lame is that letter! Won’t tell you who, just write you some passive aggressive letter. My wife would say, “be courteous, it’s the nice thing to do.” I personally wouldn’t care and would just keep driving my car. I’m also just not that nice of a person lol. I blast my speaker system for movies, I blast my guitar amps and I don’t care if my car is loud.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by fastball

I remember on the news a while ago someone spent years fighting their HOA over the display of their American flag. And the homeowner was a veteran. He ended up almost going bankrupt fighting his HOA.

Now, I don't care how big his flag was, how long he displayed it, and if it violated every HOA policy in their book. If he wanted to wave his flag and run a 5,000 lumens spotlight on it all night every night he is well within his rights and the HOA should pound salt. He owns the house, the property, and the flag.

The flag is one thing. The hypothetical spotlight is another thing entirely, and is far more applicable to this thread. Unless you're going to implement a means to restrict the direct and indirect (reflected off the flag) light it generates to your own property line, putting out that kind of light becomes a very real problem for neighbors, particularly in the dense apartment/townhouse communities HOA's are best known for governing.

Your neighbors should not have to choose between compromised sleep and purchasing blackout curtains because one of the means you want to demonstrate patriotism by is to light up the night a couple dozen feet from their windows. Similarly, they should not have to keep their windows closed (particularly in the times of year when people want to do so rather than run the A/C) because you feel like your right to go out in the wee hours of the morning and make noise supersedes anyone else's right to a good night's sleep.

There are various local laws on just that sort of behavior which would not be necessary if people would simply accept the sort of ancient behavioral & social norms the normal vast majority of the population would consider to be beyond dispute - here, that the time between sunset and sunrise is a time of darkness, quietness, and sleep - and act accordingly.

Finally, no, you're not "well within your rights" to do whatever you please whenever you please on your property when you're living with a HOA. When you make the choice to do so, you're willingly surrendering certain rights that you wouldn't need to in a home not subject to such an association. You don't get to take the positives (shared financial responsibilities for certain utilities & maintenance requirements, not having to mow your own lawn, etc.) without also having to accept the negatives. Some of those negatives can be absurd or even abusive, for sure, but restrictions on the kinds of noise and light you can inflict on your neighbors are not among them.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Emoto

This is a good argument. But, what about local zoning ordinances? Don't those often cover things like that?

Exactly! Cities already have existing ordinances. And unlike the inner cities which don't have the ability to enforce ordinances when their police departments are stretched thin and there's drug dealers and murderers they spend their days going after, suburban cities have all the time in the world to enforce their ordinances.

That's why, even when there are existing ordinances on the books, they're not usually enforced in the inner cities and they are in the suburbs.

Hence your trailer trash can sit comfy in their filth in the big city but not in my suburban city.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

The flag is one thing. The hypothetical spotlight is another thing entirely, and is far more applicable to this thread. Unless you're going to implement a means to restrict the direct and indirect (reflected off the flag) light it generates to your own property line, putting out that kind of light becomes a very real problem for neighbors, particularly in the dense apartment/townhouse communities HOA's are best known for governing.

Your neighbors should not have to choose between compromised sleep and purchasing blackout curtains because one of the means you want to demonstrate patriotism by is to light up the night a couple dozen feet from their windows. Similarly, they should not have to keep their windows closed (particularly in the times of year when people want to do so rather than run the A/C) because you feel like your right to go out in the wee hours of the morning and make noise supersedes anyone else's right to a good night's sleep.

There are various local laws on just that sort of behavior which would not be necessary if people would simply accept the sort of ancient behavioral & social norms the normal vast majority of the population would consider to be beyond dispute - here, that the time between sunset and sunrise is a time of darkness, quietness, and sleep - and act accordingly.

Finally, no, you're not "well within your rights" to do whatever you please whenever you please on your property when you're living with a HOA. When you make the choice to do so, you're willingly surrendering certain rights that you wouldn't need to in a home not subject to such an association. You don't get to take the positives (shared financial responsibilities for certain utilities & maintenance requirements, not having to mow your own lawn, etc.) without also having to accept the negatives. Some of those negatives can be absurd or even abusive, for sure, but restrictions on the kinds of noise and light you can inflict on your neighbors are not among them.

I embellished on the light but the flag is very true, and very serious. He was a senior veteran.

I guess the gentleman should have moved out before it escalated if the policy of the HOA is not to display a flag, but my point is he liked the house, he bought the house, he owns the house, and he owns the flag. No one is suffering mental or physical harm because he's displaying an American flag on the front of his house.

[ChickenPoop]

Shit like this is why I am soooo glad I live in the country.

[Prodogs]

Its not the HOA that's bad - its the shitty people who crave for power that make an HOA bad. Power hungry individuals love to have control over others and this is their only way to feel empowered by threatening others through the power of being on an HOA.

[germanicus]

Originally Posted by fastball

I remember on the news a while ago someone spent years fighting their HOA over the display of their American flag. And the homeowner was a veteran. He ended up almost going bankrupt fighting his HOA.

Now, I don't care how big his flag was, how long he displayed it, and if it violated every HOA policy in their book. If he wanted to wave his flag and run a 5,000 lumens spotlight on it all night every night he is well within his rights and the HOA should pound salt. He owns the house, the property, and the flag.

So he should be free to break a contract he agreed to?

I disagree.

Take responsibility and own your actions.

If you don't like the HOA - DONT BUY THE HOUSE.

It doesn't matter what the flag or action/behaviour is - if its prohibited in the HOA CC&R and he breaks its, too bad.

I get it, many HOA CC&R's may seem overbearing and even offensive to you (and myself), but part of civilization is being responsible for your actions and honoring what you agreed contractually to do.

If you buy a home with a CC&R in place - own it.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by germanicus

So he should be free to break a contract he agreed to?

I disagree.

Take responsibility and own your actions.

If you don't like the HOA - DONT BUY THE HOUSE.

It doesn't matter what the flag or action/behaviour is - if its prohibited in the HOA CC&R and he breaks its, too bad.

I get it, many HOA CC&R's may seem overbearing and even offensive to you (and myself), but part of civilization is being responsible for your actions and honoring what you agreed contractually to do.

If you buy a home with a CC&R in place - own it.

I agree with you on not buying the house. But I believe HOAs should be illegal and are unconstitutional. If you buy a house that house and that property is yours. You should be able to buy the house without insipid rules and dues.

Like I said - legal extortion. I'm dead serious on that too. You won't change my mind so you can stop trying to explain HOAs. They're exactly like what the mafia did to businesses, only they get to hide behind legal documentation and real lawyers.

[coruiz]

^ lol ok