[RealG]

Some people are saying that this refresh will not increase sales because it’s ugly but they love the current model that’s in last place in sales and is not selling. So if the old one doesn’t sell and the new one doesn’t sell you and the designers don’t know what you’re talking about or doing that’s obvious. Sales are the ultimate Judge and jury. Chevrolet is not making these cars for any other reason then to try and make money and profit period. The public most Importantly the buying public is not connecting with these cars for some reason. If this refresh does not sell there’s bigger problems.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Doc

This 'refresh' is not going to outsell the Dodge or Ford offerings. GM will sell a few, but that's about it. Maybe the apologists are okay with the Camaro being in last place sales-wise, but I'm certainly not. I hope the decision makers at GM aren't either.

This body and interior design has to go. Start over. Get a designer with a vision. Sangyup Lee who designed the 5th Gen concept car, is now working at Hyundai designing a new Genesis coupe for them.

Here's his sketch for the 5th Gen Camaro:

Attachment 935148
Attachment 935149

Here's his Genesis Essentia concept car for Hyundai:

Attachment 935150
Attachment 935151

Compare those to what the Chevy design team has done with this 'refresh'... it's not a winning design... period. I'm not going to baby the team or anyone else. They're big boys and this is business. The engineering team has knocked it out of the park; the body and interior design team needs to match that with a design that matches the performance.

Come up with a modern bowtie; the big, cheap looking gold bowtie looks straight out of the 80's and is horribly outdated. The old blue ones even looked better. Come up with a sleek, modern design... and I emphasis the word 'sleek'; not something from a tranformers robot. Get serious.

The body side is too high; cabin top looks squashed. The car looks bulky and heavy, and not in a good way. The front looks like it was designed by a dentist. The back? Looks like somebody stuck on aftermarket lenses from JC Whitney.

Dammit GM, I KNOW you can do better! GET SERIOUS!! Forget surveys, focus groups and polls. Get a designer with a vision and make the Camaro be what it should be; something people want to take out a loan to get. Not something they aren't sure about, or hope it will 'grow' on them.

Didn't care for the look of the 2010 SS Camaro , thought it was too soft and i have seen the look over the last 40 years, thank heaven we have moved past those days.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Boy you said it all. Agree completely. Hyundai and Kia both are making waves these days and building some great vehicles. It about finding the right people.

Kia and Hyundai really impress you ?

[Boost Creep]

Originally Posted by RealG

Some people are saying that this refresh will not increase sales because it’s ugly but they love the current model that’s in last place in sales and is not selling. So if the old one doesn’t sell and the new one doesn’t sell you and the designers don’t know what you’re talking about or doing that’s obvious. Sales are the ultimate Judge and jury. Chevrolet is not making these cars for any other reason then to try and make money and profit period. The public most Importantly the buying public is not connecting with these cars for some reason. If this refresh does not sell there’s bigger problems.

I've said it before, Chevy's marketing/advertising is horrible and that is to blame for poor sales.
The Camaro is the best car in it's class according to all the reviews, yet has the lowest sales because no one even knows they still make a Camaro.

They really need to $#!t can the whole "real people" campaign and try something original. The real people may have been good for one or two commercials but we've seen a dozen or more of these lame commercials over the past several years.
There's even a youtube channel dedicated to mocking the stupid commercials.

Dodge seems to make awesome commercials in comparison, the average person probably knows all of Dodges lineup.
Come on Chevy, wake up.

[indyz]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Nice stable i am sure the grin factor is high and i too dont look at the car while i drive it. But i also prefer not to use the proverbial bag over somebody's face while doing you know what

It's good that you didn't buy one then

Let me tell you, some of the non-hotties out there make up for it many times over when it counts, if you know what I mean

C'est la vie

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by yankee

But the SS looks chopped anyway, with that black bumper and cheeks. Looks unfinished at best.

I think a lot of body shops will now offer a way to give this car's front a proper look (flowtie relocation, bumper from side to side and painted in body color, ...). A lot of improvements can be made to make it look nicer. We even have some Photoshop "fixes" here, that make that front look a lot better. That's not a sign of a good design.

Was it designed by an intern in a hurry to prove himself...? I don't know, but it looks like it.

Have you seen a 2019 Camaro yet in person? Even tho you don't like the look of the front refresh do you see the effectiveness over what its replacing ? I haven't seen any of the so called photoshop fixes that does any good at all myself.

[AN0NYM0US]

Guys I know a lot of you don’t care about leasing, but leasing pushes sales, dodge has great leasing offers on all their challengers and chargers, that’s why the challenger is outselling camaros and mustangs lately, for every camaro I see 10 challengers....my friend pays $500 a month on a hellcat lease with 0 down yes you heard me 0 down...meanwhile my local Chevy dealer gave me a quote on a 2SS for $712 a month $1500 due at signing....tell me this, how is dodge capable of leasing the hellcat for that cheap and Chevy giving me corvette numbers on 46k msrp 2SS? It’s a freaking Chevy not Porsche...

[98_Camaro]

Originally Posted by AN0NYM0US

Guys I know a lot of you don’t care about leasing, but leasing pushes sales, dodge has great leasing offers on all their challengers and chargers, that’s why the challenger is outselling camaros and mustangs lately, for every camaro I see 10 challengers....my friend pays $500 a month on a hellcat lease with 0 down yes you heard me 0 down...meanwhile my local Chevy dealer gave me a quote on a 2SS for $712 a month $1500 due at signing....tell me this, how is dodge capable of leasing the hellcat for that cheap and Chevy giving me corvette numbers on 46k msrp 2SS? It’s a freaking Chevy not Porsche...

Because FCA is notorious for leasing/lending to subprime buyers.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

Have you seen a 2019 Camaro yet in person? Even tho you don't like the look of the front refresh do you see the effectiveness over what its replacing ? I haven't seen any of the so called photoshop fixes that does any good at all myself.

Just about no one has seen it in person as of yet.

Now I can only speak for myself, but among the things that I think were improvement over the 5th Gen was that the 6th Gen had a much sleeker appearance. Blacking out the bumper cover and putting the emblem, flow tie or not, in the middle of it, took that sleek look away. I know that the actual dimensions are probably unchanged, but it the from looks bigger and less aerodynamic. I understand that there is some more airflow with this front end, but I think they could've achieved that and kept the sleeker feel.

The protruding taillights look bug eyed to me and are completely non cohesive to the rest of the car.

[SnakeEyeSS]

Originally Posted by 98_Camaro

Because FCA is notorious for leasing/lending to subprime buyers.

It's not just FCA, its any dealer that can convince someone to take out a bad loan. The average loan length is insane now, and too many people are seemingly eager to be in an upside down finicial situation.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

Pardon que me entrometa but, This is Not a Corvette, This is Not a Giulia (Alfa Romeo, whatever) Competitor and This is NOT A LUXURY CAR INTENT. So Your luxury Request Not going to Work here... And sorry now I'm going to say something in my Languaje.... De qué sirve llamar Camaro a algo que parezca un Ferrari o un Porsche Panamera? Acaso El Corvette no está ahí para batallar con ese propósito? This is not a 50+ or a 70+ Base car, and You know what I mean when I said that. So don't try to bring that, That's not going to happen, good or Bad, it's not going to happen. Entiendalo. The only way that You may Get what You wants is IF you are the GM's Owner and do not care about the polls says, because believe it or not, this Car and the Previous one, were made because of polls of Clients that say which things wants in the car... Sorry not Sorry, This is the business that exists, not the one that You believe

Johnny you don't get it. You want to say this car is not a competitor to Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche etc., but the engineering team apparently didn't get that memo because that's exactly where they've put the performance. They have given the Camaro world-class performance regardless of the price. To me, that shows GM, and specifically Chevrolet at it's best. There's absolutely no reason why they can't come up with a body and interior to match. Nowhere in my post did I ask for luxury. I'm asking (and have been) for a dynamic and exciting design to match the Camaro's dynamic and exciting performance.

The Camaro is going to live or die based on sales. Right now it's not appealing to the marketbase it used to, and the sales reflect that. Last year they had 4 months of inventory sitting on the lots which was a disaster. The cars weren't selling, and didn't begin to sell until they started making huge discounts. That was not their marketing plan. The main problem was obviously price. The buying public clearly didn't feel it was worth the prices they were asking. Once you cross the $40K line you're reaching for a different and very affluent customer base; one that doesn't buy just one car. A base that has a lot of choices and doesn't see luxury as a negative the way you apparently do. If that's the base Chevrolet wants to bring in, they've got to step up their game in the looks department. Looks matter to that crowd.

Chevy has a problem; continue to try and reach the $40k+ crowd, or go back to their roots and make a Camaro that the $20k-30k+ crowd will buy in droves, because that's the crowd that suddenly started buying again when the prices dropped in the last 8 months. The good news is that crowd obviously hadn't lost interest in the Camaro; they just couldn't afford what Chevy was asking them to pay. The market base is still there and still interested.

You're making it an emotional decision; I'm saying it's a business decision, regardless of how you or I, or any forum member here feels. We're not enough to keep the car afloat. They need their old base to bring in the money they used to get. If they don't knock it out of the park with the 7th gen, that may very well be the last of the Camaro as we know it. They canceled it before and they'll do it again if the business just isn't there enough to justify keeping it.

[93oh]

Originally Posted by Doc

Johnny you don't get it. You want to say this car is not a competitor to Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche etc., but the engineering team apparently didn't get that memo because that's exactly where they've put the performance. They have given the Camaro world-class performance regardless of the price. To me, that shows GM, and specifically Chevrolet at it's best. There's absolutely no reason why they can't come up with a body and interior to match. Nowhere in my post did I ask for luxury. I'm asking (and have been) for a dynamic and exciting design to match the Camaro's dynamic and exciting performance.

The Camaro is going to live or die based on sales. Right now it's not appealing to the marketbase it used to, and the sales reflect that. Last year they had 4 months of inventory sitting on the lots which was a disaster. The cars weren't selling, and didn't begin to sell until they started making huge discounts. That was not their marketing plan. The main problem was obviously price. The buying public clearly didn't feel it was worth the prices they were asking. Once you cross the $40K line you're reaching for a different and very affluent customer base; one that doesn't buy just one car. A base that has a lot of choices and doesn't see luxury as a negative the way you apparently do. If that's the base Chevrolet wants to bring in, they've got to step up their game in the looks department. Looks matter to that crowd.

Chevy has a problem; continue to try and reach the $40k+ crowd, or go back to their roots and make a Camaro that the $20k-30k+ crowd will buy in droves, because that's the crowd that suddenly started buying again when the prices dropped in the last 8 months. The good news is that crowd obviously hadn't lost interest in the Camaro; they just couldn't afford what Chevy was asking them to pay. The market base is still there and still interested.

You're making it an emotional decision; I'm saying it's a business decision, regardless of how you or I, or any forum member here feels. We're not enough to keep the car afloat. They need their old base to bring in the money they used to get. If they don't knock it out of the park with the 7th gen, that may very well be the last of the Camaro as we know it. They canceled it before and they'll do it again if the business just isn't there enough to justify keeping it.

I think the issue with that is that the fit and finish goes to shit of you sell at brz price. They make a car that dusts off most coupes has better brakes, suspension and build quality and features. People have a stigma with Camaro that simple and if they bought with brains and drove one they would see it is a better car and value. Plus whole country wants suvs for Mom and kiddies not many people clamoring for coupes. So people that have disposable income can easily afford the Camaro. Me... I can buy a GT2 if I wanted but see value and fun factor in GM’s latest. With ten speed I’ll buy another. Ford I’m good on after my father’s mercury had paint peeling off by the sheets after only being in garage with 5000 Miles. Last mustang I’ll own is a 2016 gt350. That was leaking fluid all over my driveway after a botched oil change. No thanks

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by Doc

Johnny you don't get it. You want to say this car is not a competitor to Corvette, Ferrari, Porsche etc., but the engineering team apparently didn't get that memo because that's exactly where they've put the performance. They have given the Camaro world-class performance regardless of the price. To me, that shows GM, and specifically Chevrolet at it's best. There's absolutely no reason why they can't come up with a body and interior to match. Nowhere in my post did I ask for luxury. I'm asking (and have been) for a dynamic and exciting design to match the Camaro's dynamic and exciting performance.

The Camaro is going to live or die based on sales. Right now it's not appealing to the marketbase it used to, and the sales reflect that. Last year they had 4 months of inventory sitting on the lots which was a disaster. The cars weren't selling, and didn't begin to sell until they started making huge discounts. That was not their marketing plan. The main problem was obviously price. The buying public clearly didn't feel it was worth the prices they were asking. Once you cross the $40K line you're reaching for a different and very affluent customer base; one that doesn't buy just one car. A base that has a lot of choices and doesn't see luxury as a negative the way you apparently do. If that's the base Chevrolet wants to bring in, they've got to step up their game in the looks department. Looks matter to that crowd.

Chevy has a problem; continue to try and reach the $40k+ crowd, or go back to their roots and make a Camaro that the $20k-30k+ crowd will buy in droves, because that's the crowd that suddenly started buying again when the prices dropped in the last 8 months. The good news is that crowd obviously hadn't lost interest in the Camaro; they just couldn't afford what Chevy was asking them to pay. The market base is still there and still interested.

You're making it an emotional decision; I'm saying it's a business decision, regardless of how you or I, or any forum member here feels. We're not enough to keep the car afloat. They need their old base to bring in the money they used to get. If they don't knock it out of the park with the 7th gen, that may very well be the last of the Camaro as we know it. They canceled it before and they'll do it again if the business just isn't there enough to justify keeping it.

Okay, Now I really see on what you mean about Your statement... And I respect it, And I can't Deny that there is Some Right if we talk about the relationship between Perfornance and goodies

But this is a Pony Car which is a type of Muscle car, and you know the definition of Musclecar... Chevrolet seems to be with that statement

[Doc]

Originally Posted by 93oh

I think the issue with that is that the fit and finish goes to shit of you sell at brz price. They make a car that dusts off most coupes has better brakes, suspension and build quality and features. People have a stigma with Camaro that simple and if they bought with brains and drove one they would see it is a better car and value. Plus whole country wants suvs for Mom and kiddies not many people clamoring for coupes. So people that have disposable income can easily afford the Camaro. Me... I can buy a GT2 if I wanted but see value and fun factor in GM’s latest. With ten speed I’ll buy another. Ford I’m good on after my father’s mercury had paint peeling off by the sheets after only being in garage with 5000 Miles. Last mustang I’ll own is a 2016 gt350. That was leaking fluid all over my driveway after a botched oil change. No thanks

When the Mustang and Camaro first came out, the market was much simpler and clearly defined. Basically there were passenger cars, sports cars and trucks. The Mustang created a middle zone between passenger cars and sports cars that was huge and became very popular. Those days are gone. The marketplace now is so fragmented, there just isn't that huge marketplace gap anymore. SUV's were probably the last of that kind of market, but that too is changing. Even trucks are changing.

Trucks used to be about basic utility and hauling stuff; period. Now they're getting as expensive as a Cadillac and almost as fancy inside. Same with Sport Utility Vehicles (SUV's). They used to be about sport and utility, but now they're also climbing up in price with luxury interiors. Manufacturers keep reaching for the customer with loads of cash in their pocket, but those aren't the majority.

What the mass marketplace needs and will respond to, is something stylish they can afford. Pony cars used to be in that category. Believe it or not, your basic VW Bug would once again hit the bullseye if somebody had the vision and connections to make it happen. They weren't great at anything, but they were stylish and very affordable. They were also easily customizable. I think that formula would still work today for the same reasons.

I realize CAFE regulations really hamper what manufacturers can do, but there has always been that maverick; that one guy who didn't know it was impossible so he did it. It will be somebody who understands profit based on volume, rather than unit margin. It will be a visionary; somebody who realizes the real meaning of: "People don't know what they want until you show it to them." Otherwise we're just slowly slip-sliding into the world of Blade Runner, only it won't be a movie.