[LESS1]

Originally Posted by travislambert

In my opinion, deleting entries from the list without well-defined rules is probably not the best approach. While I certainly appreciate and respect what you do to maintain this thread, we all share and contribute to this forum to make it work. If you're going to do anything other than add entries that forum members would like posted then there is a risk of sucking any and all fun from this thread. Inevitably, there will be a disagreement on what should or shouldn't be allowed.

If we are adding rules about multiple entries for the same track and driver, I'd suggest adding them near the top of the first post. At the moment, I feel the rules are a bit unclear, arbitrary, and inconsistent with the original intent. According to the first post, "This thread is intended to be fun, informational & educational". Choosing to not add entries members would like posted and deleting previously approved entries seems to directly contradict the "informational & educational" part.

If there is a need for fewer entries, let's at least do it in a way that makes sense. I previously mentioned limiting each track configuration to 10 entries, but even that has the downside of every entry eventually being occupied with modified cars. Requiring a lap video might be a good start if the purpose is indeed to be informational and educational. I think Jason's suggestion of allowing otherwise duplicate entries for both sub-200 TW and 200+ TW also makes sense. To be honest though, I don't understand the need to limit it at all. It has worked the way it is for years with very few issues.

Why do you feel it is necessary to curate multiple entries for each car and driver tracking modifications? You should keep this data yourself to track performance improvements/losses for said mods. This shouldn't be a function for Luan to curate during his free time.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by LESS1

Why do you feel it is necessary to curate multiple entries for each car and driver tracking modifications? You should keep this data yourself to track performance improvements/losses for said mods. This shouldn't be a function for Juan to curate during his free time.

Because it's supposed to be informational and multiple entries make perfect sense in the case of slicks vs street tires. It might as well be a completely different car.

"You should keep this data yourself to track performance improvements/losses for said mods"

Isn't the entire purpose of this thread, and to some degree the entire forum, the exact opposite of what you're proposing I do?

For the record, I'm not the one trying to change things. I'm advocating that the list be maintained as it was originally. Luan took it upon himself to change things recently which is why he had to go through and delete entries from the list.

If time is the issue, let Luan say time is the issue. There are better ways to reduce the effort involved if that is indeed the problem. I think the real problem is the fact that I would have been occupying the #1 and #2 spot for PittRace and Luan didn't like it. It wasn't a problem when I had the #1 and #6 (or whatever position it was). The moment I tried to update my #6 time to the #2 time, that's when it became an issue.

[5.M0NSTER]

Guys, c'mon, he is one man maintaining ALL of our lap times. Let him do it his way, or take on the task yourself.

Keeping all the entries makes no sense, as the list will become unreadable. So let the man do his thing, or you do all the upkeep of ever increasing data set.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Keeping all the entries makes no sense, as the list will become unreadable.

That's 100% not true. It does make sense, and it's how it has been for years without issue. The rules just changed a few days ago.

You guys are acting like I'm proposing a change, when in fact, I'm trying to keep the list as it has been.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by travislambert

That's 100% not true. It does make sense, and it's how it has been for years without issue. The rules just changed a few days ago.

You guys are acting like I'm proposing a change, when in fact, I'm trying to keep the list as it has been.

Do you want to maintain extra hundreds of lap times each year for the next 10 years?

I'm guessing you don't have much experience managing databases...

You got a machine learning algorithm ready to handle it? If not good luck. It will take HOURS of manual effort unless you can shrink down the data set, OR you have an algorithm to do it for you. And even then good luck scrolling through 600 entries of lap times at Road America.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Do you want to maintain extra hundreds of lap times each year for the next 10 years?

I'm guessing you don't have much experience managing databases...

You got AI algorithm ready to handle it? If not good luck.

Wow, if you only knew who you were talking to. Let's just say you're not a good guesser and leave it at that.

Your logic is flawed. There isn't this excessive burden that you're claiming there will be. The entries were already being maintained that way prior to a few days ago, and it wasn't a problem. This thread serves as a counterexample to your claim.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Because it's supposed to be informational and multiple entries make perfect sense in the case of slicks vs street tires. It might as well be a completely different car.

I get having different entries for tires such as street vs a dot/race tire. However, not if the same driver and car combo is going to post times for 5 different tire manufacturers. That would be pointless to curate especially given the variables involved and not provide any value add, in my opinion. Same would be true for smaller less significant mods such as camber plates, toe links, arbs...etc.

Originally Posted by travislambert

Isn't the entire purpose of this thread, and to some degree the entire forum, the exact opposite of what you're proposing I do?

See my response above.

Originally Posted by travislambert

If time is the issue, let Luan say time is the issue. There are better ways to reduce the effort involved if that is indeed the problem. I think the real problem is the fact that I would have been occupying the #1 and #2 spot for PittRace and Luan didn't like it. It wasn't a problem when I had the #1 and #6 (or whatever position it was). The moment I tried to update my #6 time to the #2 time, that's when it became an issue.

I'm not trying to imply that time is an issue for Luan and cannot speak for him on this topic. As for ways to streamline and optimize the curation of this info please advise. Finally, I find it hard to believe that anyone takes issue with you or anyone occupying multiple places including 1/2 as you indicate. My point is if the list was limited to a top 10 as you suggested. At the popular tracks you end up leaving a lot of folks out and the list becomes a ZL1/ZLE with the occasional heavily moded SS 1LE making the cut. Which is of less value to most of us here and would be a loss of valuable information for the majority of the forum members.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Wow, if you only knew who you were talking to. Let's just say you're not a good guesser and leave it at that.

Your logic is flawed. There isn't this excessive burden that you're claiming there will be. The entries were already being maintained that way prior to a few days ago, and it wasn't a problem. This thread serves as a counterexample to your claim.

So you want to volunteer to take on the "non excessive burden" of maintaining hundreds if not thousands of slightly varying lap times (depending on how many tacos or beer you had the night before)?

Sure. Be my guest.

But I want some sort of search function on all the lap times by various categories. And it better include:

"Lap Time" && "Track" && "Tire Type" && "Tire Width" && "Tacos consumed" && "Beeeeeeeeeeer consumed before" && "# of slower cars you have to lift for" & "Did I almost shitmyself for main brake zome (BINARY)" & "Ambient Temp" and "Tire Wear Status" & "I Thought I had more brake pad lining left (HEX)" & "Did I have new brake Fluid? (FUZZY)" and ....

Your argument is the one that's flawed.

The Epistemological Discourse of this thread is IF we're supposed to report our BEST lap times here. Not all the garbage we've done on the way to get there. And my answer is <YES>

Drops the Mic.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

So you want to volunteer to take on the "non excessive burden" of maintaining hundreds if not thousands of slightly varying lap times (depending on how many tacos or beer you had the night before)?

Sure. Be my guest.

But I want some sort of search function on all the lap times by various categories. And it better include:

"Lap Time" && "Track" && "Tire Type" && "Tire Width" && "Tacos consumed" && "Beeeeeeeeeeer consumed before" && "# of slower cars you have to lift for" & "Did I almost shitmyself for main brake zome (BINARY)" & "Ambient Temp" and "Tire Wear Status" & "I Thought I had more brake pad lining left (HEX)" & "Did I have new brake Fluid? (FUZZY)" and ....

Your argument is the one that's flawed.

The Epistemological Discourse of this thread is IF we're supposed to report our BEST lap times here. Not all the garbage we've done on the way to get there. And my answer is <YES>

Drops the Mic.

Yep, you sure showed me. Good job, Scooter.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by travislambert

Yep, you sure showed me. Good job, Scooter.

Glad we agree. Took long enough.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by LESS1

I get having different entries for tires such as street vs a dot/race tire. However, not if the same driver and car combo is going to post times for 5 different tire manufacturers. That would be pointless to curate especially given the variables involved and not provide any value add, in my opinion. Same would be true for smaller less significant mods such as camber plates, toe links, arbs...etc.

I think we're mostly in agreement here. Keeping two times, one for street and one for a race tire is precisely what I was attempting to do. When I posted an updated street tire time, I asked that my old street tire time be removed in spite of the fact that my ZL1 at that time was stock and now it's modified quite a bit. Going back before that, I had a time on 3Rs that I asked to be updated to a slightly faster time on A7s. I didn't have an issue with not keeping both because the tires were similar enough.

Originally Posted by LESS1

I'm not trying to imply that time is an issue for Luan and cannot speak for him on this topic.

Sorry, I assumed that you were saying time was an issue when you suggested that "Maybe some of the folks here that would like to change the current process should volunteer to assist with the upkeep of the data."

Originally Posted by LESS1

As for ways to streamline and optimize the curation of this info please advise.

I'm sure lots of folks would have ideas. One idea might be to seperate each track into its own thread and have different folks maintain the list for each track so all of the burden doesn't fall on one person.

Originally Posted by LESS1

My point is if the list was limited to a top 10 as you suggested. At the popular tracks you end up leaving a lot of folks out and the list becomes a ZL1/ZLE with the occasional heavily moded SS 1LE making the cut. Which is of less value to most of us here and would be a loss of valuable information for the majority of the forum members.

Yep, I agree completely. In fact, I made the same point just a few posts ago. That approach wouldn't come without compromise, but it would help to reduce the effort in maintaining the list.

[5.M0NSTER]

I'm sure lots of folks would have ideas. One idea might be to seperate each track into its own thread and have different folks maintain the list for each track so all of the burden doesn't fall on one person.


Yep, I agree completely. In fact, I made the same point just a few posts ago. That approach wouldn't come without compromise, but it would help to reduce the effort in maintaining the list.[/QUOTE]

Soooo which half of the country do you want to be responsible for in terms of lap times?

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Soooo which half of the country do you want to be responsible for in terms of lap times?

How exactly would one go about specifying a particular half of a country in terms of lap times?

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by travislambert

How exactly would one go about specifying a particular half of a country in terms of lap times?

Exactly.

So I rest my case once again. Let Luan do his thing. Case closed.