02-11-2013, 12:03 AM | #169 |
Drives: 2010 2SS RS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2009
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Golden age of econo boxes doesn't have the same ring...
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2SS RS bone stock for now...
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02-11-2013, 08:00 AM | #170 | ||||
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It seemed the simplest way to separate the general appearance that Camaros have always had from the general appearance of current 4-door sedans, crossovers, SUVs and odd little boxes. I contend that the buyers who would be likely to shop Camaros/Mustangs/Challengers are somewhat different with different priorities than those looking at vehicles in the other group. How many potential Camaro buyers would actually cross-shop it against an Impala, Equinox, or Traverse?
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All some folks want is a little excitement in their transportation and somewhat better than base or "average" performance. My wife fits into this category at least on the performance point. 4-cyl NA was and still is an absolute deal-breaker to her, but 4cyl-T was entirely acceptable following a test drive demonstrating that it wasn't just another gutless wonder. I KNOW she gets into the throttle more than lots of people do, at least once in a while. Quote:
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When you want to compromise away all of the utility in the effort to push the first three further hardcore, you're basically limiting the car's potential sales to singles, empty-nesters, and those fortunate enough to be able to maintain at least two vehicles. At some point along this path, you've just shot yourself in the foot. Quote:
FWIW, one of the "equivalence factors" used for turbocharging is 1.4. Applying that to a 2.5L engine gives you 3.5L equivalent as NA. Close enough to the various 3.6L and 3.7L displacement engines to not matter at all. Cylinder count was left out intentionally, but I suppose instead of sticking a 2.5T badge on its rump you could give it a 3.5E tag if it would make you feel any better. Norm |
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02-11-2013, 08:00 AM | #171 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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Tar sands requires extra processing steps to get oil and is for that reason more expensive. Shale requires even more processing and has yet to be done in a true commercial process and has the extra step of getting the environmentalists to ok strip mining the Rocky Mountains increasing cost even more. And lastly it is a commodity. Simply because we have it doesn't make it cheaper. It will be subject to global pricing and as Chinese demand goes up so will the price regardless of where it is made. It would be like saying gold mined in the US could be purchased at a lower price. But I hope your optimism works out for is. Global econics suggest otherwise.
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02-11-2013, 11:00 AM | #172 | |
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What you call a compromise, I would say gives the car it's sales appeal, popularity, repeat customer loyalty, and "image"... ...As far as the stereo-types you describe that now buy the car, ignoring their reasons or ability to purchase a car that others may not see as "practicle", is the reason the car should not include a I-4....Build a car that is "practicle"...compete for market with every other "practical" car with the Camaro, and those damn elitist, v-8, SS owners with some money in their pocket, just might not consider a Camaro in the future... ...That would really be GM and Camaro shooting themselves in the foot... |
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02-11-2013, 12:58 PM | #173 | ||
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The catch comes with what constituted an adequate level of performance, and I'm sure that you and I differ substantially on how much attention is paid to each of the various measures of that performance. Let alone what's OK to somebody less hardcore than either of us. As far as the stereo-types you describe that now buy the car, ignoring their reasons or ability to purchase a car that others may not see as "practicle", is the reason the car should not include a I-4....Build a car that is "practicle"...compete for market with every other "practical" car with the Camaro, and those damn elitist, v-8, SS owners with some money in their pocket, just might not consider a Camaro in the future...[/QUOTE] Coupes in general aren't as "practical" as 4-door sedans and such, and I don't expect them to ever be that practical. Certainly not to the extent that performance absolutely must be bred out of them in order to get there. What's your point here? And I still don't get why you or anybody else would refuse to buy a V8 SS Camaro solely because of the existence of an I4-T version. Talk about shots fired and feet . . . . neither you nor I would have to buy such a version, and it's highly unlikely that either of us ever would. Norm |
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02-11-2013, 03:08 PM | #174 | |
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And I still don't get why you or anybody else would refuse to buy a V8 SS Camaro solely because of the existence of an I4-T version. Talk about shots fired and feet . . . . neither you nor I would have to buy such a version, and it's highly unlikely that either of us ever would. Norm[/QUOTE] Not sure if I ever really have a point...lol....Just that if there is a "trend" of any kind going on here, the addition of an I-4 is more than "just another option" that you don't have to buy if you don't have to...It points to a direction of "let's be like Honda", or "let's build the Camaro more practical" to appeal to the masses...smaller and just enough is perhaps the way to increase sales of the Camaro....Not very appealing to me, even if the car still has a v-8 option... I always thought all Camaro's were in the same family...but don't think we need to "adopt" an I-4...lol |
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02-11-2013, 03:16 PM | #175 |
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02-11-2013, 06:25 PM | #176 | |
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This weekend a CNN news anchor tried to get Bill Nye the "Science Guy" (with only a mechanical engineering degree, which makes him an expert on climatology) to tie Winter Storm Nemo to "Climate Change". Hilarious stuff! But it gets better... Later in the interview when the topic switched to the near miss of the Earth by asteroid 2012 DA14, the anchor attempted to get him to blame close encounters with near Earth asteroids on global warming. These luddites will believe anything. We can tell them that the population in china is growing so rapidly that we need to stip mine the rockies to counter balance the mass of all the population on the opposite side of the Earth, otherwise the Earth will be in danger of tipping over. The green lemmings will flood the rockies with pick axes and bare hands, to help strip-mine the oil and minerals, believing that they are saving the planet from capsizing. If we play it right we can get them to put all the oil and ore into our trains and we can haul it off and sell it and get richer than Al Gorzeera. The irony will be delicious! |
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02-11-2013, 06:40 PM | #177 |
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For the record, I wouldn't want to see a normally aspirated I4 Camaro either. Now that would be an ill-advised Honda wanna-be move.
Norm |
02-11-2013, 06:50 PM | #178 | |
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....All good...Just hoping GM and Camaro doesn't screw up this car and its reputation in pursuit of a few more dollars and potential customers...etc., etc.,.... |
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02-11-2013, 08:26 PM | #179 | |
Drives: 1998 Nissan, 2010 Camaro Join Date: Jul 2009
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02-11-2013, 08:36 PM | #180 | ||||
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But the point you ignored was that the I4 is a step down from the current 6 cylinder. There's no benefit for a Camaro buyer to get one with an I4 over a V6. None. Now, if you're talking about a potential smart car buyer, steer them towards a Cruze, Volt or what have you. But don't change the Camaro. It will ruin it. Quote:
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02-11-2013, 09:22 PM | #181 |
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He's also part of the problem. By falling for the propaganda he is actually perpetuating it and spreading it to people on forums and probably in real life.
What ever happened to critical thinking? Are people that brainwashed that they can't see reality anymore? What everyone SHOULD be doing is pushing back against those who would try and strangle our energy supply, instead of accepting their lies as inevitable truths. Instead of "So yes, I'd bet the farm, mine, my families and my friends that gas will hit 5 or 6 per gallon in the not too distant future." You SHOULD be saying: "if gas will ever hits 5 or 6 per gallon, I will do everything in my power to unseat any incumbent who voted to make this happen, regardless of their affiliation. I will also boycott every company that promoted this either directly or via their politburo advertising." |
02-12-2013, 07:18 AM | #182 | |||||
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I am NOT suggesting a 200 HP four of any description, even though it seems people keep misunderstanding that. Quote:
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But one more time <sigh>, neither you nor I have to buy one, if/when it comes out. Nor do you have to feel that the V8 version you do buy is somehow any less satisfactory because a version that you wouldn't ever want exists. Just let those "lesser sub-models" be "other cars I would never buy" and leave it at that. It isn't that hard. Quote:
Norm |
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