[NG329]

Originally Posted by HemiDave

You would certainly know this.

I personally will stick with the stock power on my ZLE, just like I did with my Demon.
Not my bikes though.
My bikes are derestricted, dyno tuned and modded.
I cant keep those stock.

I've got 20 years on motorcycles. Folks get all salty when I tell them triple digits in a car is BS. hahahahah. Fight me!

[HemiDave]

Originally Posted by NG329

I've got 20 years on motorcycles. Folks get all salty when I tell them triple digits in a car is BS. hahahahah. Fight me!

So true.

They need to experience what pinning the throttle to 160(plus) on a 1000cc SuperBike feels like, then they would understand.

I gotta pick up an H2. Thats my next bike.
That must be fun.

[NG329]

To throw a wrench in things, the Z06 Nurburgring run was an automatic. Hahaha

[SnakeEyeSS]

Originally Posted by JG853

I saw that too - I am not sure if they were driving it the way it was meant to be driven - No offense to them, it is just a lot of power to handle. Same way they drove the C7 ZR1... Too much for them.

It's been pretty consistent, Motor Trend, C&D, and a few online reviews have said the handling is numb and dull. The car handles well but has no feel or feedback, Camaro is far ahead.. And we all know GM isn't paying anyone to say anything good about the Camaro

[SnakeEyeSS]

Originally Posted by NG329

Not necessarily too much power for 'them'. I would say that it's a very short track. But if we're being fair, the cars that are supposed to go fast are at the top of their list. T. Holland is a pretty good driver. He's no "Stig" but he's pretty astute behind the wheel

Would love to get Randy Pobst's comments on the new car.

Go watch the TH GT500 vs Challenger vs ZL1 video. The Dark Horse got the GT500 suspension hand-me-downs. Pobst said there is no doubt the GT500 is the faster car, and it feels much more powerful, but he'd take a ZL1 to drive over the GT500, especially with the cost savings. You can figure what he'll say about a similarly optioned ZL1 and DH being the same price.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by NG329

Fair play. I’ll counter by pointing out that the AMG GT tells me that they figured out something that GM has not. …and it held the Nurburgring record.

The term Superior is a stretch. Not convinced. The data has not been definitive.

The data is more than definitive but keep your head in the sand and pretend it to be what you want.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by SnakeEyeSS

Go watch the TH GT500 vs Challenger vs ZL1 video. The Dark Horse got the GT500 suspension hand-me-downs. Pobst said there is no doubt the GT500 is the faster car, and it feels much more powerful, but he'd take a ZL1 to drive over the GT500, especially with the cost savings. You can figure what he'll say about a similarly optioned ZL1 and DH being the same price.

I saw that. GT500 > ZLE

Damn tragedy those don’t come in manual.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

The data is more than definitive but keep your head in the sand and pretend it to be what you want.

You’re right man. Just not absolutely right. …

If you can throw real world #s that prove ME > FE, I’ll jump aboard the bandwagon.

NAS-CRAP Camaro56 absolutely trounced the best MEs in the world for outright fastest lap. How does that happen with an inferior platform?

[Revalot]

NG329 thanks for the wise words, riding a H2 inside line on against GSXR1000 is something special. ��

[JG853]

Originally Posted by SnakeEyeSS

It's been pretty consistent, Motor Trend, C&D, and a few online reviews have said the handling is numb and dull. The car handles well but has no feel or feedback, Camaro is far ahead.. And we all know GM isn't paying anyone to say anything good about the Camaro

I think I had a typo - I was referencing the $300K Mustang GTD (Not the Mustang GT). Ford could have produced anything for $300K, but decided to go FME and Supercharged for a Road Race $300K Mustang GTD. My friend is hopefully going to get one as he has applied and has received allocation from Ford in the past.

I apologize for the typo regarding what I meant.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by JG853

I think I had a typo - I was referencing the $300K Mustang GTD (Not the Mustang GT). Ford could have produced anything for $300K, but decided to go FME and Supercharged for a Road Race $300K Mustang GTD. My friend is hopefully going to get one as he has applied and has received allocation from Ford in the past.

I apologize for the typo regarding what I meant.

Racing is marketing too.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by NG329

You’re right man. Just not absolutely right. …

If you can throw real world #s that prove ME > FE, I’ll jump aboard the bandwagon.

NAS-CRAP Camaro56 absolutely trounced the best MEs in the world for outright fastest lap. How does that happen with an inferior platform?

We're you aware that the Camaro56 ran as an experimental vehicle and not bound by class rules? That car had a massive HP advantage over the GTE vehicles.

https://jalopnik.com/could-the-nasca...ull%20throttle.


Debating with you about which platform is superior is clearly ridiculous because thee evidence is all there and you choose to ignore it. Not much else I can do. Keep your head in the sand.

[NG329]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

We're you aware that the Camaro56 ran as an experimental vehicle and not bound by class rules? That car had a massive HP advantage over the GTE vehicles.

https://jalopnik.com/could-the-nasca...ull%20throttle.


Debating with you about which platform is superior is clearly ridiculous because thee evidence is all there and you choose to ignore it. Not much else I can do. Keep your head in the sand.

I'm merely asking you to teach me. Show me the way. So I looked it up. The Ferrari GTE has 600hp. The Garage 56 had "UP TO" 750hp.... or whatever that means. Yet, the times weren't even close. One would assume that the horsepower advantage is the sole reason for the better performance.

However.... In the real world, the Camaro ZL1-1LE has 650hp claimed, and the 911 GT3RS has a claimed 518hp. Not quite 150hp like the racing scenario, but close enough. And yet, the GT3RS is leaps and bounds better than the ZL1-1LE.

So while the 2nd comparison favors your viewpoint of the ME being a better platform, the racing comparison doesn't necessarily do that. Since in a street application an ME doesn't need equal horsepower to beat a FE, but in a racing scenario it does based on your argument in the previous post.

As a follower of your posts, I know you have a smugness and a unique way with words. But I definitely don't have my head in the sand. I would honestly switch sides in a heart beat if it comes out definitively that an ME is better than an FE.

I'm not a hater or a contrarian. I just want to fully comprehend the science behind such views. Word of mouth is never good enough for me. I'm at the top of my field in the world, and I take a data driven approach to my profession. So I kind of approach my hobbies and interests the same way. Not being a jerk, just pursuing a deeper understanding as to why.

[NG329]

Let me give you an example of a "Superior Platform" vs an Inferior one. A little bit of Moto Racing history.

In the early 2000s, Honda campaigned a V-Twin 1000cc bike against inline 4 cylinder 750cc bikes. Honda started to dominate and it became next to impossible for Kawasaki and Suzuki to beat the V-Twin 1000cc. Having 4 cylinders allowed for higher RPM and more linear power delivery. However the torque off of the corners allowed the V-Twin RC51 to capitalize and win tons of races (2002 Nicky Hayden wins AMA Superbike championship against the best racer in AMA SBK history - Mat Mladin).

Licking their wounds, Suzuki and Kawasaki moved on to run 1,000cc inline 4 cylinder motorcycles and in 2003 Mat Mladin won I think 11 races out of 16. Complete and total domination. In fact, AMA (world superbike as well) enforced restrictor plates on the inline 4 cylinders to slow them down so there could be closer racing. THIS is an example of a Superior Platform (inline 4), vs an inferior one (V-Twin). Eventually V-Twins were phased out. In World Superbikes, Ducati ran as much as 1,299cc V-twins just to try and be competitive with the inline fours of the Japanese manufacturers. Years later, Ducati now campaigns V4 motorcycles against I4 bikes from Japan.

The same is true in Moto GP. Back in 2003 500cc 2 strokes gave way to 1000cc 4 strokes. This is an inferior platform giving way to a superior one. Valentino Rossi won the majority of races in 2003 with Honda's V5 4-stroke Moto GP effort. He completely and utterly destroyed anyone running a 500cc 2 stroke. So much so that racers pleaded for the manufacturers to catch up.

So my point? You can't just go saying a platform is superior to another just because you like where the engine is placed.. The data shows that FE cars are STILL COMPETITIVE with ME cars even to this day. ME cars are simply not dominating on a consistent basis where we could deduce that they are superior. That is not the case, and there is no data to support it. Superior means that it is rendering obsolete another platform and that simply has not happened.