[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First, those in the know have told us making an LT2 fit in the Camaro would drive it to a new RPO code or a pretty big change.

Second Chevy had the SS. Wonderful car and I miss mine. That with an LT1 and 10 speed would have been sweet. Reuss called it a 4 door Camaro.

It’s funny how other brands can update or completely change engines for minor price increases but it’s an insurmountable task for GM.

Adding direct injection and more power to the 5.0 Coyote? Sure, no problem.

Changing the location of the LT2 dry sump tank? Literally impossible.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by plus1zero

I was responding to another comment. I don't care what anyone drives, if they want an i4/v6 then that's their prerogative and their money. I know a guy who collects corvettes and bought a V6 for his daily because he drives all over the place and wanted better MPG. If all you can afford is a beater civic and you're happy with it, then more power to you.

IME though the i4/V6 crowd VEHEMENTLY try to prove that they're fast and act the fool in crowds and in traffic. This is not limited to Camaros either.

And you say sales are slumping because people on forums hate on V6's? No, lol. People have hated on V6's for forever simply because V8 and muscle car are synonymous. You look at an ecoboost mustang or V6 challenger and they still look similar to the V8 model. The only way to look similar to an SS is to buy an RS package, the base LS/LT models look pretty plain, especially with the tiny wheels. The sales have been slumping because of GM's inability to advertise just how good the alpha platform is, the visibility issue, and the fact that they killed the thing once and rumors have been flying around since the 5th gen they're going to kill it again. I prefer the Camaro to the Mustang or Challenger by a longshot, but the reason those things still sell like they do is they're adamant on who they're appealing to and are adamant they're not going anywhere.

Everybody knows Dodge isn't offing the challenger when they're already throwing stupid powerful V8's into everything they have and the Mustang has been an iconic brand for forever.

Stallantis has pretty much stated they are getting rid of the ICE Challenger and Charger and creating the "next generation of muscle" with electric propulsion.

To continue to refine an ICE for emissions/fuel economy (same thing btw) is getting exponentially more expensive. The return you get for the capital now required and the piece cost impact are getting very expensive. And Stellantis is making Tesla look hugely profitable by buying EV credits from them. In the previous quarter, Tesla was profitable but only because of selling credits. The last quarter was apparently profitable for making and selling cars.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It’s funny how other brands can update or completely change engines for minor price increases but it’s an insurmountable task for GM.

Adding direct injection and more power to the 5.0 Coyote? Sure, no problem.

Changing the location of the LT2 dry sump tank? Literally impossible.

GM's inability to update the Camaro or keep it fresh in anyway is disheartening. I wanted to see the 5.5L FPC go in the 6th gen as the Z/28. This would earn my money as a replacement to my 5th gen.

It definitely seems as though they're just going to let it die but I see no reason to use the name on a four door sedan. There are many other great names (Chevelle or Impala) that would suit the car better. If the Camaro is to survive it looks as though it will need to go electric but there is zero reason to make it a four door sedan, or a SUV/CUV. Ford has cheapened the Mustang name by making a CUV variant and I can only hope GM doesn't do this to Camaro. I don't have much hope at this point though.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It’s funny how other brands can update or completely change engines for minor price increases but it’s an insurmountable task for GM.

Adding direct injection and more power to the 5.0 Coyote? Sure, no problem.

Changing the location of the LT2 dry sump tank? Literally impossible.

Adding DI to Coyote was pretty much the same action as GM going from LS1 to LT1. The primary difference between LS1 and LT1 is DI, only GM did it earlier. Coyote is pretty much unchanged since then, just as LT1 is unchanged.

And the issue with location of the LT2 dry sump is that because of the mid-engine layout, that’s the only place it could go and fit in the C8 while being properly protected and service accessible. The real issue is GM decided NOT to put a dry sump on Camaro LT1. That would probably be an easier packaging execution than LT2 in the C8. Part of it would have come down to a realistic assessment of how many people actually track their vehicles on road courses (not drag strips) and is it worth passing on the additional cost of the dry sump to all the SS buyers who don’t. A pure cost vs benefit analysis.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Stallantis has pretty much stated they are getting rid of the ICE Challenger and Charger and creating the "next generation of muscle" with electric propulsion.

Do you think there is a large demographic wanting this "next generation of muscle"? Or do they plan to create demand?

I've been thinking the recent muscle car wars exist as a throw back to the original. Those that couldn't afford one at the time or opted to buy a family vehicle are now getting the car they wanted. I missed out on the original muscle cars, being born in 1982, but loved them going to car shows as a kid and had to have one when my wallet allowed me. I just wonder what appeal this new generation will have to consumers. And I really hope they don't plan on making fast SUV/CUV's and calling them muscle cars.

[ckt227]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First, those in the know have told us making an LT2 fit in the Camaro would drive it to a new RPO code or a pretty big change.

Second Chevy had the SS. Wonderful car and I miss mine. That with an LT1 and 10 speed would have been sweet. Reuss called it a 4 door Camaro.

With you on that. I had two SS sedans. Typical GM. Get something right and cancel it. I know they were not huge sellers, but those cars had it all. I miss mine as well.

[arpad_m]

Just my 2 cents', feel free to skip entirely if you disagree.

There is little point to having these discussions when some appear to believe product excellence and product success are synonymous with high sales volumes.

These are orthogonal concepts that used to be coupled but not so much anymore. Sales volumes are much more a reflection of popularity that is then a reflection of the depth of marketing/lies, the sprawling newspeak that consists of "branding", "placement", "data science driven campaigns" etc. The prevailing ideas are "if it sells, it must be good" and "it's okay to make any changes as long as it pulls more sales", not that anyone in their right mind would be against improving sales, but that should always be a secondary goal, an almost ancillary consequential benefit of innovation, quality and outstanding customer service. Which of these is GM even close to being a leader in today?

There still are a few exceptions to this, a couple straggling gems that include the Camaro—which is why many of us are so emotionally invested in it. A new 4-door "EV sedan" bearing the nameplate? Come on now.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by detamble13

Do you think there is a large demographic wanting this "next generation of muscle"? Or do they plan to create demand?

I've been thinking the recent muscle car wars exist as a throw back to the original. Those that couldn't afford one at the time or opted to buy a family vehicle are now getting the car they wanted. I missed out on the original muscle cars, being born in 1982, but loved them going to car shows as a kid and had to have one when my wallet allowed me. I just wonder what appeal this new generation will have to consumers. And I really hope they don't plan on making fast SUV/CUV's and calling them muscle cars.

I think it's a good strategy actually. Create a performance EV and kind of break that stigma that EVs can't be fun.

One of the reasons I think Ford absolutely nailed the F-150 Lightning, it looks like an F-150 and has insane performance.

[redcoats1976]

i wouldnt mind having an electric camaro...a real, 2 door sports coupe.throw an electric motor into a gen 6 and call it done.but dont put the camaro name on an electric SUV.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

i wouldnt mind having an electric camaro...a real, 2 door sports coupe.throw an electric motor into a gen 6 and call it done.but dont put the camaro name on an electric SUV.

This and do not put four doors on it either with the Camaro nameplate. Name the four door version something else.

[HDRDTD]

Perhaps call the EV version, a Camero, not a Camaro.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by plus1zero

And you say sales are slumping because people on forums hate on V6's? No, lol. People have hated on V6's for forever simply because V8 and muscle car are synonymous. You look at an ecoboost mustang or V6 challenger and they still look similar to the V8 model. The only way to look similar to an SS is to buy an RS package, the base LS/LT models look pretty plain, especially with the tiny wheels.

IMO it's just leftover stigma because 6 cylinders of the old are piss slow. In the dark age of American V8s, the V8s made, what, 250 horses. The V6s naturally made far less.

As mentioned before, now the V6 is not even that slow anymore, and it can easily spank the V8s of the old, stock for stock. IMO if Camaro wants to grow past the "American cars only go fast in the straight line huh huh" reputation, it's better for the community to be more accepting of the non-V8s. The ongoing "V8 or GTFO" implies the car is junk without the V8, and we all know how far that is from the truth, given the capability of the chassis and non-V8 1LE. That's also why I am more accepting for the V6 bashing of Challenger, because Challenger is a one-trick pony (car). And it is slow, slower than V6 Camry or 2.0T Accord.

Look at most sports car communities. You see very few people pointing fingers and judging the engine choices.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Adding DI to Coyote was pretty much the same action as GM going from LS1 to LT1. The primary difference between LS1 and LT1 is DI, only GM did it earlier. Coyote is pretty much unchanged since then, just as LT1 is unchanged.

And the issue with location of the LT2 dry sump is that because of the mid-engine layout, that’s the only place it could go and fit in the C8 while being properly protected and service accessible. The real issue is GM decided NOT to put a dry sump on Camaro LT1. That would probably be an easier packaging execution than LT2 in the C8. Part of it would have come down to a realistic assessment of how many people actually track their vehicles on road courses (not drag strips) and is it worth passing on the additional cost of the dry sump to all the SS buyers who don’t. A pure cost vs benefit analysis.

For the dry sump, I mean, if Camaro doesn't suffer from oil starvation issues on the track, that's all that matters. With a 10-litre wet sump, I don't know what kind of corners you have to be pulling to get oil starvation. Mustangs get away with far less oil.

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think it's a good strategy actually. Create a performance EV and kind of break that stigma that EVs can't be fun.

The Model S Plaid looks like it could be fun. So do they go after the big numbers and try to beat Tesla's existing product? I'm just interested in how the muscle car segment goes electric and generates interest.

[RagingHawk]

They should just kill the Camaro unless they make another ICE version. I can't see myself excited by EV sports cars. They will all feel too similar. EV's will change the definition of 'sports' car. I envision them being cars with good power/torque, range, handling characteristics, and other things to set them apart to be great sporty commuter vehicles. But, as two door sport coupes, strictly for performance/enjoyment, they won't be exciting.

GM should make an all-wheel drive performance hatchback EV, instead. Give it the new Bolt interior. Make it look good and slightly on larger side(give it that new Blazer/Trailblazer grill design language), as opposed to being too small. Vehicles are becoming more about utility for consumers. An all-wheel drive hatchback EV provides good utility and performance and is more likely to sell. Or at least makes more sense to me as a 'sports EV'. As it excites me as a great sporty commuter that meets needs for family, weather, and utility. I can't get excited by a two door coupe EV with no manual trans. An awd EV performance hatchback that I can daily on other hand ....