[96MrBass]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I think the reason the torque falls off is the baby blower they put on the ZL1. 1.7L ?? It's also likely maxed out as is on that big 6.2L engine. Hellcat pulley swap and tune and you're talking 800+RWHP easy and 9s in the 1/4.

I think a larger SC like the Whipple 2.9 or similar would make a huge difference on the ZL1.

I've personally played with my buddy's C7 Z06 and I expected it to pull on me in my Hellcat and it did not. 50 - 150 we were side by side. I figure C7 Z06 weighs less than the ZL1 (?) so not sure how one will actually do against a Hellcat with a someone that knows what they're doing. The MPH in the 1/4 seems similar so that is something to keep an eye on as that will really tell the tale. Hoping the guy who posted slips earlier can hit Beech Bend with me this fall and we can do some compares and maybe a little fun grudge race.

2 mods? Pulley and tune and running with a demon damn near

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by 96MrBass

2 mods? Pulley and tune and running with a demon damn near

Yep, pretty crazy really. Most folks go to a 2.85 pulley that gives about 15psi. It's the direction I'll go eventually. Other folks did a 100 shot of nitrous and also ran 9s but given the two options I'd rather pulley swap.

Demon's base power is 808 and 840 with the 100 octane pcm from crate installed. It gets there with 14psi from it's marginally larger supercharger 2.4 on HC vs. 2.7 on Demon.

The Demon also ran it's 9.65 time in really good DA, seriously prepped track, etc. It's probably pretty easy to run low 10s in one, but owners shooting for that 9 second pass will have to work at it for sure unless they're at Atco in November.

[Njtony]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

AH, yes on the ZL1 I would expect that much. Saw the same on my old Challenger that was supercharged when I put a CAI on it. On a NA car not so much unfortunately. A SC wants all the air it can get.



No, I said changing tires shouldn't matter and that people who are serious know better than to race on street tires. That's mine, and most other folks who actually go to the track opinion. I'm a proponent of giving the car the tires it needs to successfully use every bit of power it has effectively. No more no less. We actually do private track rentals and won't even allow guys on street tires to come as it tears up the prep and ruins it for those of us who actually spent a few bucks on good tires.

Once you start adding goodies to the engine there are far too many variables to make comparisons outside of bang for the buck car vs car.

All this stock tire stuff must be something that this forum focuses on....the others I'm on never even mention tires that I've ever noticed . When I go to the track I want max performance possible for the conditions, and not have to hope for negative DA, excellent prep, or other things out of my control.

If "bone stock" is the only thing considered, what are you guys gonna do when Good Year changes up tire offerings a couple years down the road and perhaps no longer offers the "bone stock" tires the car came with? By then this will have all faded away as some other hot car will be all the rage I guess and no one will care anymore by then.

If in the end we find the ZL1 is sophisticated enough that it can launch as hard as possible on the stock tires when compared to DRs or slicks, then that's a huge win for the car and saves owners the trouble. We don't know that yet though. A 1.7 60' is certainly promising though.

The Demon pulls wheelies on it's stock tires so there's hope for Dodge as well. I'm hopeful they follow through and offer those tires as an option on the Hellcat so I can quit having these silly debates LOL We'll all be relegated to talking about how heavy the Challenger is and how the Camaro looks like a catfish LOL

The corvette forum and the gt500 forum fast list both use the bone stock category as meaning no drag radials. Once you allow drag radials as bone stock on the list then there will be different size tires, rims etc. Guys like myself who like to run the best times possible from stock cars do know small tricks to get them to run their best times. Most obvious is to run at atco or mir in the fall.The corvette guys have been known to push the cars to the line and run them dead cold to get a record. Not sure why people are having such trouble launching the manual in the ZL1 as the Zo6 manual is doesn't seem to have the same issues. Maybe its the weight of the car or tire size?

[Blackdevil77]

@Njtony do you have a ZL1? I remember you from SVTforums, you had some of the best times, if not the best times for a lot of cars.

Gentlemen, for those that may not know Njtony, this man knows a thing or two about extracting as much as possible from a vehicle in the 1/4.

[Njtony]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

@Njtony do you have a ZL1? I remember you from SVTforums, you had some of the best times, if not the best times for a lot of cars.

Gentlemen, for those that may not know Njtony, this man knows a thing or two about extracting as much as possible from a vehicle in the 1/4.

Thanks for the compliment. Not sure two cars is a lot but I'll take it. I traded my gt500 for a 15 zo6. Now I'm thinking of moving on from that for a ZL1. The ZO6 is a piece of cake to launch versus the Gt500. My first two passes were 11.0's. I'm reading all the negatives regarding launching the manual Zl1 and this makes me hesitate on the car. Ruled out the hellcat because of all the issues people have launching the manual.

[mdmoore23]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Yep, pretty crazy really. Most folks go to a 2.85 pulley that gives about 15psi. It's the direction I'll go eventually. Other folks did a 100 shot of nitrous and also ran 9s but given the two options I'd rather pulley swap.

Demon's base power is 808 and 840 with the 100 octane pcm from crate installed. It gets there with 14psi from it's marginally larger supercharger 2.4 on HC vs. 2.7 on Demon.

The Demon also ran it's 9.65 time in really good DA, seriously prepped track, etc. It's probably pretty easy to run low 10s in one, but owners shooting for that 9 second pass will have to work at it for sure unless they're at Atco in November.

No doubt. There are gonna be a lot if disappointed people if they think everyone is just gonna go to their local strip and click off 9's in their Demon. Dodge actually used a "track prep specialist" to get that 9.65 pass. He was called in to specifically assess the surface and get perfect surface prep. It sounded more like they prepared for a science experiment than a drag strip pass.The interview I watched made it sound like that number will be very hard to achieve for average owners.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by Njtony

Thanks for the compliment. Not sure two cars is a lot but I'll take it. I traded my gt500 for a 15 zo6. Now I'm thinking of moving on from that for a ZL1. The ZO6 is a piece of cake to launch versus the Gt500. My first two passes were 11.0's. I'm reading all the negatives regarding launching the manual Zl1 and this makes me hesitate on the car. Ruled out the hellcat because of all the issues people have launching the manual.

Didn't you have the record for the C6 Z06 as well? Either way, very impressive times. Looking forward to see what you can do with the ZL1 at ATCO. I'm guessing the auto is out of the question for you lol.

I've been to ATCO a couple of times. I want to try to go soon to get a new PB in my current car.

[Njtony]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

Didn't you have the record for the C6 Z06 as well? Either way, very impressive times. Looking forward to see what you can do with the ZL1 at ATCO. I'm guessing the auto is out of the question for you lol.

I've been to ATCO a couple of times. I want to try to go soon to get a new PB in my current car.

I did have a c6 zo6 but only had that to the track once. 11.8 was not exactly quick for those cars. My old supra with just a downpipe, drag radials and a computer mod ran 11.7 which is a nice time even today in the world of 650hp camaros. The stock manual cars seem stuck in the low elevens no matter how hp the factories throw into them. I'm not even sure what the record is for the zL1 manual but it will probably end up about 11.3- 11.4.

[Fraxum]

Meet Bob, an owner of a CA6 ZL1 A10 in the best Camaro color MBM . He has drag raced in the past but is just learning about the Web. So he may not show up here. He was not aware of Camaro6. He ran three times that I knew of 11.9 (first pass ever), 12.0, and 11.9. I did not catch his mph but I think it was well over 120. His 60's were around 2.0. When I left the DA was +500 and dropping.

I was hoping to line up with him as my SS M6 was running about the same times. Obviously with more seat time his car was capable of much more, but I think a great first outing. His plans are to run 20" NT555Rs full time like me. I did not influence him, that was already his plan. Use the stock back wheels to save $$ and get good traction on the street 24x7 in warm weather. No hassle of switching wheels for 1/2 of a tenth. His ZL1 is just his trophy car and will not see daily use. Nice guy, hope he comes back.

How will his car do in -1,000- DA with the Nittos?

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by Njtony

I did have a c6 zo6 but only had that to the track once. 11.8 was not exactly quick for those cars. My old supra with just a downpipe, drag radials and a computer mod ran 11.7 which is a nice time even today in the world of 650hp camaros. The stock manual cars seem stuck in the low elevens no matter how hp the factories throw into them. I'm not even sure what the record is for the zL1 manual but it will probably end up about 11.3- 11.4.

I thought you had the high 10 second pass, must of been someone else.

Agreed, the advancement with the automatic transmissions just surpasses the manuals now in every way. They're now faster, and more fuel efficient, which used to be the benefits of going with a manual. Now the only benefit of a manual is the driver involvement/fun factor.

[TheShooter]

I own a Hellcat Charger. It's the most muscle-type fun you can have in a family sedan. And that's coming from a guy who drove and loved the M5.

But the Hellcat, CTS-V and M5 are BIG cars. They can all pull some impressive times on a road course, but don't let that fool you. I've driven them all and hard...none of them feel like a ZL1 because they're not really sports cars. Even the CTS feels like a tank...a great handling tank, but still a FAT tank.

Anyone who still labors under the illusion that a Hellcat is a 707 HP car needs a doctor. This is a 4500 car that can run a quarter in low 11's on the fairly skinny stock rubber. 10.85 happens all day on DRs and we all know that. Forget the dyne because I've spoken to folks at FCA and I know beyond all doubt that the Hellcat is in the 750 HP range. Sure, 707 sounds impressive, but the math isn't there for the car to hit the numbers it does on 707.

On stock rubber, from 70 MPH, my Hellcat charger can hurt your neck if I nail it. A ZL1 falls somewhat short of that (I've had two chances to drive the car here in LA).

So once again I want to point out the following:

A Hellcat is a BIG comfortable monster that is insane fun. It handles better than it has any right to for a BIG car that can seat 4-5 people easily. The trunk can swallow pretty much anything. It's THE most excitement you can buy while still pretending that's you're a practical dad. My Charger Hellcat is a FAMILY car.

Visits to the dealer and a few ZL1 rides later and one thing is for certain: The ZL1 has a 3rd of the practical attributes of a Hellcat and that's being generous.

But the ZL1 is a FULLY ROUNDED sports car. It's FAR more dialed in for overall performance and it's a serious platform for a road course. By contrast my Hellcat is a point & shoot missile. On a road course I can test my skills in the Hellcat, but it's NOT a sports car.

Thus I will get a ZL1 as well.

If the Hellcat is a few 10th's faster, do I care? Absolutely not one bit. Do I care that the ZL1 handles better? Absolutely not one bit. Because Both are great cars within their intended design envelopes. It's almost idiocy to compare them as they are EXTREME in their differences and goals.

R.

[Artos]

Great post shooter...if more folks would acknowledge what they do well??

One thing is for sure...I may have a chance at a drivers race with a HC & gamble on a bet, but most certain would never get a return favor from the 750HP if it included turns. Both great cars.

I'm betting Dodge may actually attempt too turn their point & shoot to compete in the not 'too' distant future with a new chassis...we know they understand turns & need something now that the viper is out. I'm looking forward to see what happens.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

I own a Hellcat Charger. It's the most muscle-type fun you can have in a family sedan. And that's coming from a guy who drove and loved the M5.

But the Hellcat, CTS-V and M5 are BIG cars. They can all pull some impressive times on a road course, but don't let that fool you. I've driven them all and hard...none of them feel like a ZL1 because they're not really sports cars. Even the CTS feels like a tank...a great handling tank, but still a FAT tank.

Anyone who still labors under the illusion that a Hellcat is a 707 HP car needs a doctor. This is a 4500 car that can run a quarter in low 11's on the fairly skinny stock rubber. 10.85 happens all day on DRs and we all know that. Forget the dyne because I've spoken to folks at FCA and I know beyond all doubt that the Hellcat is in the 750 HP range. Sure, 707 sounds impressive, but the math isn't there for the car to hit the numbers it does on 707.

On stock rubber, from 70 MPH, my Hellcat charger can hurt your neck if I nail it. A ZL1 falls somewhat short of that (I've had two chances to drive the car here in LA).

So once again I want to point out the following:

A Hellcat is a BIG comfortable monster that is insane fun. It handles better than it has any right to for a BIG car that can seat 4-5 people easily. The trunk can swallow pretty much anything. It's THE most excitement you can buy while still pretending that's you're a practical dad. My Charger Hellcat is a FAMILY car.

Visits to the dealer and a few ZL1 rides later and one thing is for certain: The ZL1 has a 3rd of the practical attributes of a Hellcat and that's being generous.

But the ZL1 is a FULLY ROUNDED sports car. It's FAR more dialed in for overall performance and it's a serious platform for a road course. By contrast my Hellcat is a point & shoot missile. On a road course I can test my skills in the Hellcat, but it's NOT a sports car.

Thus I will get a ZL1 as well.

If the Hellcat is a few 10th's faster, do I care? Absolutely not one bit. Do I care that the ZL1 handles better? Absolutely not one bit. Because Both are great cars within their intended design envelopes. It's almost idiocy to compare them as they are EXTREME in their differences and goals.

R.

Amen, this echo's my feelings exactly. And my opinions were just educated guesses, coming from somebody who owns and/or have driven both, pretty much solidifies my thoughts.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by TheShooter

I own a Hellcat Charger. It's the most muscle-type fun you can have in a family sedan. And that's coming from a guy who drove and loved the M5.

But the Hellcat, CTS-V and M5 are BIG cars. They can all pull some impressive times on a road course, but don't let that fool you. I've driven them all and hard...none of them feel like a ZL1 because they're not really sports cars. Even the CTS feels like a tank...a great handling tank, but still a FAT tank.

Anyone who still labors under the illusion that a Hellcat is a 707 HP car needs a doctor. This is a 4500 car that can run a quarter in low 11's on the fairly skinny stock rubber. 10.85 happens all day on DRs and we all know that. Forget the dyne because I've spoken to folks at FCA and I know beyond all doubt that the Hellcat is in the 750 HP range. Sure, 707 sounds impressive, but the math isn't there for the car to hit the numbers it does on 707.

On stock rubber, from 70 MPH, my Hellcat charger can hurt your neck if I nail it. A ZL1 falls somewhat short of that (I've had two chances to drive the car here in LA).

So once again I want to point out the following:

A Hellcat is a BIG comfortable monster that is insane fun. It handles better than it has any right to for a BIG car that can seat 4-5 people easily. The trunk can swallow pretty much anything. It's THE most excitement you can buy while still pretending that's you're a practical dad. My Charger Hellcat is a FAMILY car.

Visits to the dealer and a few ZL1 rides later and one thing is for certain: The ZL1 has a 3rd of the practical attributes of a Hellcat and that's being generous.

But the ZL1 is a FULLY ROUNDED sports car. It's FAR more dialed in for overall performance and it's a serious platform for a road course. By contrast my Hellcat is a point & shoot missile. On a road course I can test my skills in the Hellcat, but it's NOT a sports car.

Thus I will get a ZL1 as well.

If the Hellcat is a few 10th's faster, do I care? Absolutely not one bit. Do I care that the ZL1 handles better? Absolutely not one bit. Because Both are great cars within their intended design envelopes. It's almost idiocy to compare them as they are EXTREME in their differences and goals.

R.

Good post.