[Mr. Wyndham]

Using the correct oil is just as important as using a cooler system to support your modifications/racing style.

Several oils don't being to break down vaporize until the 280s...Obviously you don't want to go there at all, if you can help it, though...

[Ls6larry]

Sure. I have a 30 row oil to air cooler on top of the factory cooler. An10 lines. Basicly 1/2 lines that go back to an earls billet aluminium thermostatic sandwich adaptor , then I made a small aluminum skid plate for below the oil filter because the sandwich adaptor lowers the filter a little over an inch. But with my set up the filter is still higher then the bottom of the oil pan, the set up adds almost 2 quarts of oil also, so around 12 total, the 30 row cooler itself is mounted in front if the radiator right in the center , I only had to move the horn up to make it fit. Mine is on an adjustable mount so I can move it up, or behind the bumper bar or down to get more or less air flow, the lines are ran between the driver side brake duckting and the inner fender mounted to the frame of the car, so no worries of hot exhaust melting anything. I have ran this setup all last summer. No users at all, again max oil temp of 220 at the end of a full 20 min run. And yes I'm running the helk out of my car. I am very experanced in track driving. My water never got above 190, for normal every day driving oil runs around 170 to 190 deg

[X25]

Originally Posted by Ls6larry

Sure. I have a 30 row oil to air cooler on top of the factory cooler. An10 lines. Basicly 1/2 lines that go back to an earls billet aluminium thermostatic sandwich adaptor , then I made a small aluminum skid plate for below the oil filter because the sandwich adaptor lowers the filter a little over an inch. But with my set up the filter is still higher then the bottom of the oil pan, the set up adds almost 2 quarts of oil also, so around 12 total, the 30 row cooler itself is mounted in front if the radiator right in the center , I only had to move the horn up to make it fit. Mine is on an adjustable mount so I can move it up, or behind the bumper bar or down to get more or less air flow, the lines are ran between the driver side brake duckting and the inner fender mounted to the frame of the car, so no worries of hot exhaust melting anything. I have ran this setup all last summer. No users at all, again max oil temp of 220 at the end of a full 20 min run. And yes I'm running the helk out of my car. I am very experanced in track driving. My water never got above 190, for normal every day driving oil runs around 170 to 190 deg

I've never seen a car that kept coolant at 190 degrees at the track. Do you have a 150 degree or so thermostat? I would think the stock thermostat would kick in at around 190 degrees F?

I wanted to comment on the oil temps you guys are seeing. We are all using synthetic oil, and I would honestly not be concerned for anything below 290. Oil high temp warning usually kicks in at 305 degrees or so on GM's V8 cars. The flash point for the full synthetic oils (like the factory fill Mobil1) is usually around 400 degrees F. I did analyze my 5W-30 oil that got to as much as 285 degrees F on my '14 1LE, and the results were perfect. I got great results again from my Mobil1 0W-40 on my '16 C7 Z51, which kept the oil temps below 270 degrees F in stock form with the (OEM) aux radiator.

[Ls6larry]

I'm going off the factory gauge. The needle stayes under the 210 number a good bit. So 190ish range. Car has factory thermostat. It has never been to that 210 mark, on the track , in traffick , ever , and flash point And The point oil looses it ability to protect are 2 different things. I love how you all want to defend it like you have something to loose, but whatever, but I seam to side with engine builder, nascar multimillion dollar teams that say 250 is getting to hot. Listen I'm not on here to argue, I'm just going my opinion and advice. Its your car, do as you want, I know my setup works. Has worked in every car for the past what 13 years of tracking so feel as you may , but if you would really just do the actual reasearch on oil temps. Causes of engine failure. You would stop defending oils and just put the Damn cooler in your car and be done with it. Your also forgetting the benefits I said above about the oil lasting longer. You get that oil to 270+ it breaks down. Well it never just gets better it's still broken down even if it has 50 or 5000 miles on it, i bet you any money you track your car get the oil that hot it starts turning black , my oil that never gets hot, I ran all summer 4500 miles and 6 track days and guess what, still clean just the slightest color change, tells me right there the oil cooler is doing it's job. Keeping my oil good protecting my engine, , then you have the people you can go 10000 miles or whatever. That's fine do that, but remember when that oil is black it's full of garbage and it's going threw your engine every time you run it, keeping the oil cool make a if last longer just plain in simple, again not on here to argue. Just giving my 2 cents for those who care

[X25]

Originally Posted by Ls6larry

I'm going off the factory gauge. The needle stayes under the 210 number a good bit. So 190ish range. Car has factory thermostat. It has never been to that 210 mark, on the track , in traffick , ever , and flash point And The point oil looses it ability to protect are 2 different things. I love how you all want to defend it like you have something to loose, but whatever, but I seam to side with engine builder, nascar multimillion dollar teams that say 250 is getting to hot. Listen I'm not on here to argue, I'm just going my opinion and advice. Its your car, do as you want, I know my setup works. Has worked in every car for the past what 13 years of tracking so feel as you may , but if you would really just do the actual reasearch on oil temps. Causes of engine failure. You would stop defending oils and just put the Damn cooler in your car and be done with it. Your also forgetting the benefits I said above about the oil lasting longer. You get that oil to 270+ it breaks down. Well it never just gets better it's still broken down even if it has 50 or 5000 miles on it, i bet you any money you track your car get the oil that hot it starts turning black , my oil that never gets hot, I ran all summer 4500 miles and 6 track days and guess what, still clean just the slightest color change, tells me right there the oil cooler is doing it's job. Keeping my oil good protecting my engine, , then you have the people you can go 10000 miles or whatever. That's fine do that, but remember when that oil is black it's full of garbage and it's going threw your engine every time you run it, keeping the oil cool make a if last longer just plain in simple, again not on here to argue. Just giving my 2 cents for those who care

I don't think it does. Here is my oil analysis. This is when the engine was brand new from 500 to 2000 miles, 4 track days, which makes it even more impressive, considering the engine was still supposedly breaking in.

Wow, these results are great for a first analysis! Normally, such a young engine will have high
levels of metals in its first few oil changes as wear-in material washes out - throw in 4 track days and even
more metal would be expected, but everything is nice and low in this sample. There's certainly nothing to
worry about from what we see here, and it looks like this LT1's internal parts are getting along just fine.
There was no sign of significant contamination to cause problems, and the trace of insolubles shows
excellent oil filtration. Great report!

And by the way, I did put an external oil cooler on my Camaro, and used a much bigger oil cooler core since I had to remove the OEM cooler:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381050

Anyway, the point is, I don't think 270 degrees or so is too high. If the OEM system is able to keep it at or below that, I'd not modify it. Besides, there are usually leaks with aftermarket systems; why bother. Anything at or above 290, then I'd start getting worried. I wonder what temps the ZL1 owners are hitting..

[DFW1LE]

While I like the idea of over engineering a track car cooling wise, I was under the impression that 275 degrees should not be a problem for synthetic oils to handle. I do not plan on running LeMans, so until there is evidence of problems, I am going to assume the GM cooling setup is adequate with a good synthetic like MobilOne. If that was not the case, why would GM provide a warranty when tracking the car.

[Ls6larry]

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php , nice little read for anyone. This is not someone view of this or that , it's facts. Oil will break down plain and simple. Idea temp is below 250 fact. There's no he said she said I think we think here, so do your research people, this forum is all Joe blows telling each other out opinions , I'm on here to learn but my god this is a stupid subject to argue on, leading cause of engine failure after user error, loss of oil pressure spun bearings. What causes that, well lots of things. But one being hot oil that lost ability to protect the engine, it's not rocket science here, if it's made by man it will break

[glamcem]

I don't think 270 (or even 280F) degrees at the track day is something to be concerned about or worth to taking the risks associated with having an aftermarket air-to-oil cooler. Especially when we can change the oil for very cheap (every other track day or 2k miles is what I will be doing this season).

After seeing so many failures (leaking fittings, hoses ,,etc) from those "reputable" manufacturers, I will simply keep an eye on the temps and simply change the oil more often. It's the cheapest insurance in any car, imo After all, this is GM's track ready car so I will take their word for it

[DFW1LE]

Originally Posted by Ls6larry

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php , nice little read for anyone.

Didn't see any info on the link???

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Want to test for yourself? Take the Catch Can Challenge. Install an Elite E2 or E2-X inline AFTER any of the cans mentioned in this thread and drive 1000 miles. Then check both Catch Cans. You’ll be amazed at how much oil passed through the other Catch Cans, but is caught in the bottom of ours.[/COLOR]

You guys use 1/4 NPT fittings. Some brands use 3/8 NPT or larger. A smaller orifice will pull more oil.

[Ls6larry]

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...hp?f=1&t=31363 , sorry try that. I think I didn't get the link right the first time

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Ok, take a deep breath. I'm not sure why you're so angry over this topic, and I'm not really sure what you're trying to be angry about. You've clearly missed some key facets. Matthew didn't say he doesn't believe in coolers, he said his previous car's aftermarket cooler didn't improve anything measurably.

Second, there's no reason to get all pissy and then make irrational statements about heat exchanger stack-up. Nobody's attacking your Callaway intercooler. In fact, let's take a look at what makes the most sense for exchanger stack-up. You want to put them in an orientation where your exit temps ramp from coolest to warmest. As such, a preferred stack-up is Intercooler, then A/C condenser, then Coolant radiator, then Oil Cooler. You want the charge air coolest, and the oil the warmest. Arranging them this way is logical.

We're in agreement about cheap people tend to do foolish things. Don't defend doing the wrong thing. If you're going to install an auxiliary oil cooler, do it with a thermostat. This allows your oil to heat up quickly, yet stay within a rational temp range. Too cold oil is overly viscous and also fails to boil off water, both of those are bad. That said, there's yet to be any proof that a street-only LT1 needs an Aux oil cooler. The data just isn't there. We only have one data point from JeromeS13 that on-track oil temps are high, and that's with the Motul Xclean oil.

So, you cannot, and if you're indeed a heat exchanger professional, should not make a blanket statement. You want the oil in a reasonable temp range. More cooling is not always better. Look at the whole picture.

Peace.

I was stating that I don't believe Matthew's statement that there was no measurable difference. It's just not possible if oil and air were flowing through that cooler.

Deep breath...

My statement about exchanger stack up was not irrational. I agree with you that you want the stack to go from coolest to warmest temp, but you are missing the point of best/easiest location to put the oil cooler and just calling it the wrong location. The radiator has a much larger area, as well as 2 supplemental radiators, that won't be blocked by an oil cooler. In my opinion, Chevy should have made one of the aux rads an oil cooler like on the Hellcat.

Now I haven't installed my oil cooler yet and I'm sure mine will be even more challenging with my intercooler there, so maybe I will find a suitable location behind the radiator. My assumption is that there is no room/place to mount it and it requires mounting in front or I can take my own suggestion and mount it on the roof . BTW I am also piecing my cooler setup together and not just buying the full Mishi kit, but I was planning to use there thermostatic sandwich plate.

[Ryephile]

I think we're on the same page here. Thank you for the well thought out reply.




To X25: Do you recall or have datalogged what the displayed oil temps were during those track days? It's also important to note the difference between Flash point and Smoke point is significant. Most good full-syn's have a smoke point between 275 and 300°F

[X25]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

I think we're on the same page here. Thank you for the well thought out reply.




To X25: Do you recall or have datalogged what the displayed oil temps were during those track days? It's also important to note the difference between Flash point and Smoke point is significant. Most good full-syn's have a smoke point between 275 and 300°F

Well, it's all in my build thread, and the oil temp gauge also shows up in my videos. IIRC, it did not exceed 270 degrees F or so, regardless of the ambient temps.