[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Lowdown that is wrong, You can get the 6.2 in a xlt. It is rated at 13 &18 EPA 2wd

...which isn't 15 and 21, is it?

Thanks for the confirmation to my point.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

[/B]
When Mr. LOWDOWN is Wrong he will try to shift the conversation in another direction.

Apples to apples is always a fair discussion, no?

I cited engines of equal displacement and cylinders, in equal environments, and Ford loses. In hp AND fuel efficiency, which is the true measure of a superior offering, no?

Don't blame me for Ford's lack of DOD, or lack of DI, or lack of more camshafts, or lack of anything else...

You're incorrect. Your 6.2 is NOT very impressive, as offered, is it? But it looks BUTCH for all those Urban Cowboys to cruise their neighborhoods in. I'll certainly give you that.

Again...back to the regularly scheduled "what if" program.

[joelster]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

[/B]

This is impressive.

When Mr. LOWDOWN is Wrong he will try to shift the conversation in another direction.

Exactly. I'm talking about the Coyote 5.0 versus the LS7 7.0. I say the Coyote is more high tech and a better engine, and suddenly he is comparing truck engines from a Raptor versus a Silverado.

What is the title of this thread again? Oh yeah, Ford gunning for the Z/28. What engine is in the Z/28 again? Um.... LS7.

[Grabber]

I'll throw a wrench in, and I am sure there is a "Reason" for it.

Saying Ford loses the HP game when comparing engines of equal displacement.

Hmmm.

ZL1's LSA which is a 6.2L LSA making 580HP, vs. the Trinity Motor 5.8L making 662HP. Both are Supercharged, and from the FACTORY, the GT500 has over 80HP more.

Let me guess, boost, compression, etc. Ford makes more power with a smaller engine. The size difference of both engines is equal considering the blower on the Trinity motor is bigger than that found on the LSA IMHO.

Anyhow, It will take Ford quite a bit to compete with the Z/28. The Z/28 is one bad ass machine and really came out strong. Granted, I feel it is priced a bit high, and it is a true racecar with minimal features, but, it's performance and looks deliver, hands down.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by joelster

Exactly. I'm talking about the Coyote 5.0 versus the LS7 7.0. I say the Coyote is more high tech and a better engine, and suddenly he is comparing truck engines from a Raptor versus a Silverado.

What is the title of this thread again? Oh yeah, Ford gunning for the Z/28. What engine is in the Z/28 again? Um.... LS7.

Your basis for calling the Coyote a better engine is entirely arbitrary.

[joelster]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Your basis for calling the Coyote a better engine is entirely arbitrary.

Yeah, let's see, Coyote=5.0L of displacement, 444hp/380ft/lbs of torque, LS7 is 7.0L of displacement 505hp/470ft/lbs of torque.

LS7 is 29% bigger and makes 12.5% more power and 19% more torque. It gets worse mileage too.

Arbitrary.........................

No facts here, just opinions and black magic.

[LOWDOWN]

As has been confirmed, and repeated 'n repeated, the LS7 is going away...

And as I mentioned, there are gaps between LT1 and LT4, Since you're a diehard GMer, that should be encouraging news.

Is the Coyote a fine engine? All those sold ones answer that question, don't they?

Is the LS7 the lightest-weight heavy hitter that GM, at this late date in the Gen-5 lifecycle, could put in the Z/28? Yes indeedie.

Would GM go to the even greater expense of putting the LT1 (with its non-compliant electronics) in a Gen-5 Camaro? No, they wouldn't/didn't.

Does the Z/28 lap (its intended mission) a track quicker than a (current-Gen but now past-model) BOSS LS? Yes.

Will a (next-Gen) GT 350 beat a (next-Gen) Z/28? Only time (no pun) will tell. Will the GT 350 beat a then-past-model LS7? Who'll really cares?

Does it matter in the showrooms of America that the Gen-5 Z/28 beats the now-redundant BOSS? Not really.

Both serve(d) the purpose of being their (current-to-this-moment) respective manufacturers' benchmarks with regard to road course warriors with VINs. And both manufacturers will do their best to improve upon these successes with their next-Gen replacements.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by joelster

Yeah, let's see, Coyote=5.0L of displacement, 444hp/380ft/lbs of torque, LS7 is 7.0L of displacement 505hp/470ft/lbs of torque.

LS7 is 29% bigger and makes 12.5% more power and 19% more torque. It gets worse mileage too.

Arbitrary.........................

No facts here, just opinions and black magic.

The LS7 is also smaller. The updated LS7 now makes 481 lb*ft of torque.

[HeavyIOM]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Putting a new-Gen vehicle up against an old-Gen vehicle generally leaves the new-Gen versions in a "winning light"...or at least I'm sure the manufacturers hope that's the case. Otherwise, why bother?!

New-Gen to new-Gen? Bring it on...which may not fully happen for a few years...

Regardless of loyalties, practicalities, engine architecture and possible engineering triumphs and add-ons, the Gen-5 Z/28 is establishing a "benchmark". For future Camaros, Fords, BMWs, et al...just as the BOSS LS before it...and many others before them. FACT.

Back to our regularly-scheduled programming...

That's what you just did by comparing GMs new gen 6.2 vs fords old 6.2.

Originally Posted by big hammer

the 5.0 is also worse on fuel than the 5.3. weird!

Comparing the brand new 5.3 to the 4 year old 5.0 motor. The new 5.3 is on par to compete with the current 4 year old ford offering. When the 15 comes out with a refresed power train the 5.3 will be behind...again. I got 22MPG on the highway out of my 5.0 F150 so I don't see the 5.3 getting to much better than that.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Grabber

ZR1's LS9 which is a 6.2L LS9 making 638HP, vs. the Trinity Motor 5.8L making 662HP. Both are Supercharged, and from the FACTORY, the GT500 has over 26HP more.
.

Go to just about ANY sanctioning body, and the engine DISPLACEMENT is predicated by engine ARCHITECTURE...

The more valves you have, the more air your "air pump" will pass.

International racing and Indy all allowed a greater displacement for pushrod engines than for OHC engines. But that's RACING. And how many "race cars" do North American manufacturers produce-sell per year?

The VAST majority of V8 engines now sold are sold in TRUCKS, the reason I brought this discussion in that direction. And trucks are HEAVY. And heavy needs TORQUE. And torque is more readily available with MORE DISPLACEMENT. Which is the route general ytravelled by Mopar and GM. Ford chose a different route...and the MUSTANG is a tiny portion of that "route", relatively...

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by calebparkin3

That's what you just did by comparing GMs new gen 6.2 vs fords old 6.2.
.

Again, don't complain to me about Ford's 6.2. Since you seem to know what's happening @ Ford, is the 6.2 slated to be continued and/or improved?

BTW, how many 6.2s will Ford sell this year? How many will GM sell? A low volume engine like that doesn't earn headlines like the Triton does. If you want Ford to improve it, tell THEM...

[matt55]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

You're missing the point. "When you are producing 500 hp, you are burning 500 hp-worth of fuel."

I own a tweaked '87 Regal Turbo-T. Yes, I can get nearly 30 mpg with the car...but NOT when I'm demanding it deliver "500 hp"...

And THAT is the "lie" for this supposed "new-tech" forced induction solution. Idling along on the EPA drive dyno leads to erroneous F.E. numbers (even when "recalibrated"). Put the vehicle to its intended use, especially in a truck environment under load with a gasoline engine, and F.E. flies out the window.

Diesels are different, especially in a truck environment. In trucks, they barely recognize a load, as far as F.E. is concerned. Their F.E. degradation, unloaded vs. loaded, is nominal in comparison to a gas V8. Some gas V8s, when towing to max rating, drop in HALF or worse. You don't see that with diesels, when towing the same weight.

You know then you do not tune a F.I. car at 12.5-13 a/f on 93 like a N.A. motor , you would (a least I did in my turbo cars) shoot for +/-11.5 a/f .
So using more fuel to get same hp per air flow ...

[TheReaper]

Originally Posted by Grabber

I'll throw a wrench in, and I am sure there is a "Reason" for it.

Saying Ford loses the HP game when comparing engines of equal displacement.

Hmmm.

ZL1's LSA which is a 6.2L LSA making 580HP, vs. the Trinity Motor 5.8L making 662HP. Both are Supercharged, and from the FACTORY, the GT500 has over 80HP more.

Let me guess, boost, compression, etc. Ford makes more power with a smaller engine. The size difference of both engines is equal considering the blower on the Trinity motor is bigger than that found on the LSA IMHO.

Anyhow, It will take Ford quite a bit to compete with the Z/28. The Z/28 is one bad ass machine and really came out strong. Granted, I feel it is priced a bit high, and it is a true racecar with minimal features, but, it's performance and looks deliver, hands down.

Oh please don't let Mr. LOWDOWN read this. It's kinda like the facts speak for themselves.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

Oh please don't let Mr. LOWDOWN read this. It's kinda like the facts speak for themselves.

The 5.8 Trinity is DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder and also has a bigger blower and is running 15 psi of boost. Facts are if GM upped the boost on the LS9, it would be right with the 5.8 Trinity.