[TheRealJA105]

Warning, lots of quotes to reply to. I hope James will reply.

Originally Posted by Engyj

About this bad.

But yeah possibly 1-2 seconds faster on fresh. Unfortunately, the life of a cup2 is short lived when attached to a GT500. Its heavy, and wears down hard by the third lap. So this was as close to science as we could get with the resources we have. We try to control every variable we can, always.

Were the ZLE's G3Rs brand new or of similar mileage? In the video I can clearly see tread depth of the 500s tires and the close up of the carbon wheels shows no outside edge wear, so I'm not buying the tire thing still. Also if they are really only good for brand spanking new hero laps, then they will already lose after a real owner drives to the track the first time. Unless he trailers the car home from the dealer and trailers it to the track

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You don't race a car in a condition where it can't win, then lose, then claim it would have won if only. That is not fair. Especially not to the ZL1. The ZL1 is not some chump that you can go in unprepared for battle against. It is deserving of a full match with both cars at their best and in their best condition to win. So let me ask, if the GT500 did win, would you guys have been making comments like "Oh wow the GT500 won AND it was on terrible tires! Imagine the gap if it had fresh tires"...??

I am sure that someone somewhere could have gotten a set to you even if they did it personally. So I just don't understand why other avenues weren't explored so the GT500 could be ran properly.

Full agree here

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The ZL1 had one advantage. That was that they put the allegedly better version for straight line runs up against the CF GT500. That isn't even an advantage really because the CF GT500 is a mid 10 second car. And it has been back and forth on rather the CF is better than the Base 500 or not.

They should have run both the ZLE and ZL1 in the dig race. Tire and weight advantage ZLE, aerodynamics and suspension advantage ZL1.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

CFTP is faster in the 1/4 than the base on unprepped surfaces (same day, location).
Is the ZL1A10 any faster than a ZLE A10 on an unprepped surface?
Not sure there was any real advantage here - I missed their reasoning for using a ZL1 in the drag race.

I agree, like I said above.

Originally Posted by Rodan

It's becoming clear that you can throw a blanket over the ZL1 and GT500 in any contest other than high speed roll racing or on a prepped dragstrip. It's gonna come down to the driver, or the tires, or some other miniscule variable that will put one car or the other ahead by a few tenths.
It's an amazing level of performance for a factory stock Mustang or Camaro. One thing is obvious though... you get a lot more for your money with the ZL1.

WINNER

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

You all want to talk about the GT500 tires but I just found out the ZLE was simply on 'Street' alignment. It was a customer car.
The GT500 had the track alignment. The car came from Ford directly.
So let's not make this about 'tires', I spoke to all the track day guys. Just because the GT500 was slightly cooked cannot justify the lap time deficit.
The Alpha is the Alpha despite being short of 110hp, no DCT, CF wheels etc.
Checkmate - ZL1.

but but but a track alignment is a mod....hahaha We need James to clear up a few more things.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

If someone gave me the choice for free, I would choos the CFTP, then sell it to a Ford fanboi for real cheap - only $5k ADM. Then, I would buy a ZL1 under MSRP, a pickup truck, and a nice fishing boat to tow behind it...
Sometimes you have to think outside the box a bit.

I was going to quote Martin and say i agree with him, but I agree with you more

Originally Posted by shaffe

And the regular GT500 is the best version of the 500 for the 1/4 but that point aside.
The reason it got dusted was the delay in the launch control... why there is a full 1 second delay I have no idea but there is. If you rewatch the drag segment, Jason talks about it then when the cars do take off, you can see the ZL1 is already up and moving and then Thomas say oh the delay then the 500 gets moving and that was all she wrote and the Camaro had a clean path to victory. And I am not using that as an excuse lol, that is literally what happened. In a race like that, that's just tough luck for the GT500. The ZLE would have done just as well
That 1 second delay could be the demise of a lot 500s at the strip. They might turn faster ETs but people might beat them because of that delay.

Why are any of these professional reviewers using launch control. It has been proven not to be the fastest way to launch any of these cars. I thought the 500s LC was great, but not once you factor in this delay.

James did you use LC in the Camaro? I don't think you did because you knew what you were doing. Regardless you should have raced multiple times and posted a video with a even launch I probably need to make this its own post so he sees the question.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The ZLE according to some sources is supposed to be 1 tenth of a second faster than the standard ZL1. However that 1 tenth is well within a driver's race. So I could see it going back and forth on which one is actually faster. I do not think throwing one over the other in the test is going to give GM the advantage. But I do tend to think that the standard ZL1 will be a bit faster. I personally do not care which ZL1 or ZLE they put up against which GT500 in either a drag test or around a track as I think both Zs are capable of holding their own.
As far as the GT500, I think the CF is the faster one in all conditions. I argued before that it would be stupid to pay $20K more and get a car that is slower in the most popular stat. But some (shaffe...surprise surprise) said the Base would be faster. Then it was turned around. So now I don't know which one people consider is the faster. I stopped caring because no matter which 500 loses there will be some BS sad story about how this or that or tires...
They basically crippled the car so it wouldn't lose. It's like...if you can't win, then just don't lose. Which is a shame. Every car showed up ready for battle except for the GT500 which is pretty pathetic. There is literally no excuse why that car should have shown up on tires that were as bad as they made them out to be. And once it did arrive, they should have sent it right back and published exactly what happened so people would know that Ford screwed up...intentionally.
I have nothing against RP. I respect him and this in no way changes my opinion of him. But if I am to offer criticism, I do not think it was right of him to make those statements that the 500 would have definitely won. Nobody knows that for sure regardless of how fast the GT500 was or whatever. It's like half a football team showing up and getting disqualified but then claiming they would have won if the entire team showed up. Again, them being professionals, statements like that should not come out of their mouth. I could see if he said it as his opinion. But to say it as a fact didn't sit right with me.

Lots of agree here too

[TheRealJA105]

Oh also, Big Willow is another high speed power track which favors the GT500. You guys should have run both Big and Streets.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Oh also, Big Willow is another high speed power track which favors the GT500.

This is a good point that hasn't been brought up until now...

When it all shakes out, the GT500 has basically equaled the performance of the ZL1... at a much higher price.

BTW, does anyone know if Ford warranties the GT500 for track use?

[NW-99SS]

Spoke with a couple of guys in the video through a FB group last night, James included.

GT500 had track alignment but the rear wing was set at factory street setting.

ZLE is confirmed factory street alignment.

They were getting manufacturer rep communications wishing they had all better prepped the cars. Big 3 - let's see round 2!

Edit: I also suggested removing the ZLEs rear seats LOL!

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Rodan

This is a good point that hasn't been brought up until now...

When it all shakes out, the GT500 has basically equaled the performance of the ZL1... at a much higher price.

BTW, does anyone know if Ford warranties the GT500 for track use?

I didn't want to be the one to mention this either, don't want to be one of those excuse makers when their car doesn't win.

Big willow is very power hungry compared to streets of willow but still, fair play, and the zle more than held it's own.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Spoke with a couple of guys in the video through a FB group last night, James included.

GT500 had track alignment but the rear wing was set at factory street setting.

ZLE is confirmed factory street alignment.

They were getting manufacturer rep communications wishing they had all better prepped the cars. Big 3 - let's see round 2!

Edit: I also suggested removing the ZLEs rear seats LOL!

So pretty much what a lot of us suspected... hey the bickering is between Ford and Chevy guys, the Dodge ran it's best race and there aren't really any adjustments to speak of.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Video doesn’t make much sense unless that was a modified zl1. The GT500 is out a car or so and the zl1 walks by??

You're right, gt500 didn't win.. some foul play must be at hand!

[bradmo9]

Glad you agree, car that traps 5 mph more is out front then gets pulled 2 cars after well into the run.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

You're right, gt500 didn't win.. some foul play must be at hand!

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I didn't want to be the one to mention this either, don't want to be one of those excuse makers when their car doesn't win.

Big willow is very power hungry compared to streets of willow but still, fair play, and the zle more than held it's own.

Exactly, that's why i suggest a 2 track test since they are on the same facility
Throttle house's private test track resembles Streets of Willow. Maybe they will get a GT500 there, where it will lose to the SS1LE. The ZLE barely beat the SS1LE on their small track. With their comments on how bumpy the track is i think a ZL1 will be faster than the ZLE there.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

As far as the GT500, I think the CF is the faster one in all conditions. I argued before that it would be stupid to pay $20K more and get a car that is slower in the most popular stat. But some (shaffe...surprise surprise) said the Base would be faster. Then it was turned around. So now I don't know which one people consider is the faster.

I can only go buy what Ford said, that the base car would be the straightline car. It makes sense to me. Unprepped surfaces in magazine testing has shown the CFTP faster. On a real drag strip the base car has been faster, out off all the 10 second passes the Steeda car is the only CFTP car I know to crack 10s

The Throttle house guys even seemed to agree, seeing as how they felt the ZLE's huge aero would slow it down to much in the 1/4 which is why they brought a regular ZL1 to run that part of the test, which is funny because the CFTP also has big aero.

But whatever.

I think it's funny it's almost a reversal of the gen 5 cars where teh Ford won the performance metrics but the camaro won the comparison. Here the camaro is winning the metrics but the Ford is winning the comparison -(well 2 out of 3 so far lol)

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I wished they would have ran the base as well, but there's evidence that shows on street surfaces the base is not the faster gt500.

The lag definately sucks but it is what it is. It'll lose but turn in the faster slip like you said.

Yep

Originally Posted by Rodan

This is a good point that hasn't been brought up until now...

When it all shakes out, the GT500 has basically equaled the performance of the ZL1... at a much higher price.

BTW, does anyone know if Ford warranties the GT500 for track use?

Yep. Not been a good showing for the GT500-especially the CFTP. I want more reviews of the base car because my mind on the CFTP is pretty much made up. Fresh tires, full track alignment, wing in right spot or not I don't care. With that price the CFTP to me is simply over priced.

Ford Performance cars used to be warrantied for track use. I am not sure if they are or not.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Spoke with a couple of guys in the video through a FB group last night, James included.

GT500 had track alignment but the rear wing was set at factory street setting.

ZLE is confirmed factory street alignment.

They were getting manufacturer rep communications wishing they had all better prepped the cars. Big 3 - let's see round 2!

Edit: I also suggested removing the ZLEs rear seats LOL!

So we know the track alignment for the ZLE would help.

Fresh tires obviously would help GT500.

Someone that has more experience than me, how much does the wing being in street setting matter?

Even if both cars were set to 100% track mode and the CFTP won, it wouldn't have had me jumping for joy. Not unless it put a gap on it like say what both did to the RE. Not with that price tag

[minn19]

Originally Posted by shaffe

So we know the track alignment for the ZLE would help.

Fresh tires obviously would help GT500.

Someone that has more experience than me, how much does the wing being in street setting matter?

Even if both cars were set to 100% track mode and the CFTP won, it wouldn't have had me jumping for joy. Not unless it put a gap on it like say what both did to the RE. Not with that price tag

I/we were talking about this in the M6G thread. They obviously think it would, but I'm unsure as to the trade offs on this specific track. It definitely helped going down the long straight for straight line speed. But, I'm unsure of how much it hurt the CFTP in the corners. And what corners/speed it comes into effect on that track.

I'm with you, I don;t know and it would be cool if they did a hot lap with all of the aero bits and wing track setting. Then of course compare it to how it was setup in this comparison with fresher tires of course.

[Rodan]

They can do comparison articles until the cows come in, and it won't make a difference to M6G.

If the GT500 wins by .0005 seconds it will be "GT500 DESTROYS ZL1!!!11!!!1"

If the Camaro wins, it will be "Randy sandbagged!", "the tire pressure was wrong!", "somebody in the pits farted and created a headwind for the Mustang"...

The truth is we've seen enough to know the cars are roughly equivalent in performance, except the GT500 can pull away in a straight line if it can put the power down. That's what you get for an extra $25-50k.

I would like to see a ZL1 v. GT500 base comparison that includes street, strip and road course, since the big excuse regarding the 1LE is always the "harsh suspension".

If the GT500 had the same equipment, and the same bottom line cost as a ZL1, I'd certainly consider it (once the durability is proven), but for my money I'm quite happy with our ZL1.

[FH212]

All these discussions are great!! I love being able to bicker about tenths of seconds on the fastest Muscle/Sports cars ever made!! What a great time to be a car fan!!! Chevy, Dodge & Ford.... good job and keep it going!! Thats all I have.....

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by FH212

All these discussions are great!! I love being able to bicker about tenths of seconds on the fastest Muscle/Sports cars ever made!! What a great time to be a car fan!!! Chevy, Dodge & Ford.... good job and keep it going!! Thats all I have.....

For real people to be able to buy and drive these cars is truly remarkable. Who would believe that 650HP was the low end power in any kind of review?