05-18-2015, 10:39 PM | #127 | |
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05-19-2015, 05:39 AM | #128 |
C'mon- really?
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Do you have a link to that article? Apparently most other companies (Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc) do not subscribe to that train of thought.
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Steve
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05-19-2015, 06:34 AM | #129 |
Banned
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Manual SS for me. I will gladly trade the slight irritation of heavy traffic for the enjoyment of rowing my own gears on open roads. Every single time.
Also, if you really know how to drive stick, and get to know your car well, you can learn to balance the throttle and hold it in gear (or not have to shift as often), whether it's first or second, on the flow of traffic (unless it comes to complete dead stop for longer than a few seconds). |
05-19-2015, 08:09 AM | #130 | ||||||
corner barstool sitter
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You aren't giving the torque converter nearly enough credit. Under certain conditions it will actually multiply the torque coming into it, and it will allow the engine to 'flash' up to an rpm where more torque is available to begin with. A conventional clutch can't do either of those things, and even the top fuel clutches can only allow the engine rpm to be decoupled from the road speed (no torque multiplication). Quote:
Consider that it will be easier for an 8A to allow the engine to operate at higher efficiency point more of the time than it will be for you to keep a 6M there, assuming that the individual gear ratios, final drive ratio, and torque converter characteristics are chosen accordingly. There are emissions considerations that favor the use of automatics and as a result allow slightly more aggressive tuning for improved mpg. It's unlikely that you're more of a conventional manual transmission fan than I am (since 1973 even our 2- and 4-door family sedans have all been MT), but the realities of the situation cannot be ignored just because you'd individually prefer to disregard them. Originally Posted by Bhobbs The manuals are still better for road racing. Even GM has said that with the Z06. Quote:
This discussion isn't about DSG transmissions anyway (6 speed Manual or 8 speed auto; what will you choose?). If/when other options show up - DSG, CVT, whatever - then it'll be the subject of a different thread entirely. Norm
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05-19-2015, 08:47 AM | #131 |
C'mon- really?
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GM has publicly said the 8L90 will outshift (in speed) the Porsche DSG haven't they? I haven't seen the statement or article from GM stating that they essentially recommend the manual over the 8 speed for road racing but would like to read it. And while transmission design is important, isn't the bottom line about weight, reliability, parasitic loss, and ultimately shift change speed? I don't think it would really matter what transmission style is used (unless mandated by the racing authority's rule book) as long as the transmission in the car is fast, light, reliable, consumes the least amount of horsepower, and shifts faster than anything else. All of those factors will determine the competitiveness of any racing transmission. Yes, the imports use a DSG but that is because of the features it provides and in particular the gear shift change speed. I would imagine if they found an even better transmission design that would win more races (such as three rubber bands and a sharp wooden stick), they would dump the DSG and move to the next big thing. I'm not sure why the new 8 speed auto would be considered a detriment to a road racer over the manual per GM if it is as good as GM says it is? Thanks.
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Steve
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05-19-2015, 09:22 AM | #132 |
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Heat generation and weight, to start with.
For the drag racer (where shift speed is crucial), the first is not a problem and the second can be overcome by means not necessarily available to the road racer (and which brings you right back to the first problem). With an automatic, you have less control over the actual engagement of the next gear. Harshness is fine (perhaps even preferable) at the dragstrip, where there are only upshifts. But it's not so nice when you've got some cornering load going on simultaneously. You can modulate how hard the clutch grabs and modulate engine rpm to suit when you're doing it all yourself, but not how hard the AT grabs. When you're only trying to do (say) the rev match for a downshift and the tranny is trying to do its thing in response to that manually commanded downshift, it's all too easy to not have things done in sync with each other. It's a do-able but pretty clunky technique so I doubt that many people ever do more than maybe try it out. Norm
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05-19-2015, 09:32 AM | #133 | |
C'mon- really?
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I'm just asking. Thanks for the info.
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Steve
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05-19-2015, 10:12 AM | #134 | |
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"That said, Corvette chief engineer Tadge Juechter recently told Corvette fans the automatic transmission runs hotter and will go into a preservation mode sooner, so he recommends the manual for serious track duty or when the ambient temperature at the track is above 86 degrees. The high ambient temperature on our test day was 70 degrees."
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05-19-2015, 10:23 AM | #135 | |
C'mon- really?
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Steve
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05-19-2015, 11:41 AM | #136 | |
corner barstool sitter
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Emissions has something to do with it (probably a lot). Having to run a third certification gets expensive for whatever option sells in the smallest volume and thus harder to justify. This is hardly any different from car mfrs who don't offer any transmission choice at all for most of their models. Norm
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05-19-2015, 12:20 PM | #137 |
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A8 cause I am lazy.
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05-19-2015, 12:24 PM | #138 |
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Okay so here's a good question to think on...
Seeing that the 6 speed cars get a NON-AFM version of the LT1, does this indicate a different RPO code for it? Or does it share RPO code, and it gets differentiated by the transmission option? Second point/question... This non AFM LT1...makes me wonder. Every version of LT small block out at the moment has AFM. The LV3 4.3 V6, the L83 5.3, the L86 6.2, the LT1 in the Stingray (both transmissions) and even the stupid powerful LT4 (both transmissions). This is the first mention/notion that there is a non AFM version out there. Does this spell a hint towards a future NA LT non AFM engine for say a Z car or 1LE type, manual only track monster? Without AFM, there is (if history is any indication with LS3 vs L99) there is the ability for a high winding LT small block.
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05-19-2015, 12:24 PM | #139 |
I Design stuff ;)
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Auto. V8
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Too many ignorant comments on stupid threads...
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