[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

The dark horse time was faster than the ZLE

LOL, driver mod. No way that car is faster than a ZLE with a good driver.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Megahurtz

Why wouldn't they test the SS 1LE vs the Darkhorse instead of a base level LT1? I never understood these sorts of tests where they clearly want a specific car to win. Albeit not buy much lol.

Because of mass, the LT1 optioned with summer tires is likely the quickest configuration for NA Camaro. Same hp as SS and SS 1LE, but lighter and therefore quicker.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

Mine is a 17' Super Sport manual, I am waiting for the 2025 Camaro when they up the HP to 505.

Originally Posted by SS_Don

Do you believe something the rest of us don’t?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fixed it for you.

[RideWithDanger]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

LOL, driver mod. No way that car is faster than a ZLE with a good driver.

The ZLE has a disadvantage on that track without adjustable suspension, and if im not mistaken Motor Trend actually got a better time with it on that same track.

Dark Horse also ran on the Nurburgring Nordschleife and wouldn't post their time, and many people called out it wasn't looking as good as their Mach 1 did. I think its a really fast car and honestly not a terrible track car, it just doesn't quiet live up to its MSRP.

At the end of the day, a base model Camaro thats half the price was RIGHT behind it and the 1LE thats 15k or more cheaper than this Dark Horse was still considered the better drivers car and more engaging to drive.

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I'm very surprised that the Dark Horse had a better lap time compared to the Camaro ZL1 1LE. But the 2024 Mustang GT is behind all the Muscle car pack. They had great words for the Camaro and the Mach l.

Wow, the Mustang GT barely eeked by a bunch of turbo 4 cars with that track time.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

LOL, driver mod. No way that car is faster than a ZLE with a good driver.

Yeah, exactly, plus that track is tiny, all lap times are in the 70-75-second range, and the surface very bumpy. Tires weren't matched either.

These comparisons spanning several years are only meaningful as ballpark estimates, say, for stating a Hellcat is much slower than a BMW M4 (duh), but when it comes to a few tenths, they don't matter much.

It's also a psychological play, many people look at the "leaderboard", see a 0.05 second difference and are still predisposed to say "OMG this car beat the **** out of that car".

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

LOL, driver mod. No way that car is faster than a ZLE with a good driver.

I am just going by the times Throttle House post on their site. Pretty sure the DH was a second faster on that track with him driving.

[FarmerFran]

Here is their list...

[Twizzty]

Here is a post from TH on the mustang forum this morning.

Hey mate, hope you don't mind me replying but I do so because Thomas and I care about the Mustang forum and i'd love to dispel any displeasure from our videos.



To address your first point about street driving and daily usage, we simply didn't have the car on the street. There was no press car available at the time of filming so instead thanks to the kindness of an owner, we used a flatbed to bring one directly to our track for filming that one day only.



Thanks to Toronto having seasons, to have waited any longer for Ford Canada to get their shit together would have meant potentially never making a piece of content with it to begin with. Apologies, I'd love to have lived with it and given impressions. But something tells me the Trofeo RS tires that were on it might have made daily duty a little less comfortable in downtown Toronto, what with all our streetcar tracks and all.



As for other options on the DH, we rarely if ever run through what a build/spec sheet would look like in our reviews. Let Raiti's Rides or someone else tell you that info, but something tells me you as a forum member are probably already filled in on that stuff so I'm not sure who that info would be for.



As for it being faster than the ZLE, that's totally fair to point out we didn't discuss it. I think mostly it was because of how shockingly quick the DH time was. All of what you see is recorded in real time. it is not rehearsed. It is not scripted. So my shock probably didn't help me gather my thoughts. But seeing as I'm here answering, the answer is most likely that the fixed dampers on the ZLE punished the lap time on our track, whereas the magneride in the Dark Horse paired with the ultra sticky tires (that perished very quickly) very much worked with our track, which is both bumpy and lacking in long straights.



As for the Camaro comparo, that is once again down to availability. GM canada (and USA) have ZERO camaros on their fleets. The SS 1LE we had previously featured was a 10-speed. We felt it more prudent to match the gearbox rather than the track kit setup, especially because it was only a straight-line race and the LT1 was the only one we could find in the time we had thanks to a very kind dealership. You'll notice no other upcoming comparo (Savagegeese, Hagerty) even features a Camaro AFAIK, because they couldn't find one at all. The good news for the Camaro crowd is that the one we did feature is likely even quicker in a straight line than the SS1LE. But yes in a perfect world, we would have had a manual ss1le.



As for our previous video where we compared a PP to a 1LE, that was a price matched comparison, and its not our fault that Ford nerfed the PP to match closer to a PP1 than a PP2. And at the very least, between the two videos, you now have all the laptimes required to make a full assessment.



Thanks,



James



P.S. We also went to the extra length to bring a Mach1 out as a service to the Mustang crowd, who have always wondered how it compared!!!

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I am just going by the times Throttle House post on their site. Pretty sure the DH was a second faster on that track with him driving.

Yeah, DH is really fast, the fact it was faster than the ZLE has nothing to do with the driver and everything to do with the suspension.

The Trofeo RS tires on that car cost over $2500 a set and are 180 treadwear rating so they wouldn't be legal for most competition that requires street tires. These are basically "cheater" tires like the Cup 2R and SC3R and are not intended for street use. Mfg'ers put them on to win these kinds of comparisons, and it seems to have worked. DH times are very impressive!

I don't think I could spend $60k+ on a DH though.

[BatMobileLT1]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Because of mass, the LT1 optioned with summer tires is likely the quickest configuration for NA Camaro. Same hp as SS and SS 1LE, but lighter and therefore quicker.

I agree if was optioned w/similar summer tires that LT1 would win on weight as noted but as I posted earlier - I see no signs that they swapped out the 245 all-season run-flats.

I wouldn't think LT1's weight advantage would be enough to compensate for its 245 all season-run flat rear tire vs SS 1LE w/305 width Goodyear Eagle F1 SC3's?

(although its also clear from the updated info from TH that they went with LT1 as only Camaro w/manual they could get, and then used its lower weight as a reason why they "selected" it).

[keep_hope_alive]

Originally Posted by Twizzty

Here is a post from TH on the mustang forum this morning.

Thanks for posting that.

I cringed at the LT1 at first but I assumed that their focus was a M6 and they said they only wanted naturally aspirated V8's, and this was all they could find. A ZL1 wouldn't have been a fair comparison in this race, and they've raced that before anyway. But Thomas smoked the tires, so with some sticky rears, I think the Camaro would have kept up.

The DH lap time was made using ultra-sticky tires that didn't last very long, and since they've added Mag Ride and are up to 500HP, they get to be the fastest.

Ford kept working on the Mustang and increased power. Chevy has neglected the Camaro and is killing it. Props to Ford for pushing forward despite no more competition. Thomas always says that he prefers the Camaro for handling/steering and they praised the previous track test with a 2SS with Mag Ride.

In a recent video on the 2024 GT, the comment was that the steering is numb but for a typical user, street cruiser, it's likely perfect. But their entire team said that if they lived near a road with corners, the Camaro would be their choice for the chassis alone.

The Camaro is the better sports car, for sure, but now the Mustang is the better daily driver.

[BatMobileLT1]

Originally Posted by BatMobileLT1

I agree if was optioned w/similar summer tires that LT1 would win on weight as noted but as I posted earlier - I see no signs that they swapped out the 245 all-season run-flats.

I wouldn't think LT1's weight advantage would be enough to compensate for its 245 all season-run flat rear tire vs SS 1LE w/305 width Goodyear Eagle F1 SC3's?

(although its also clear from the updated info from TH that they went with LT1 as only Camaro w/manual they could get, and then used its lower weight as a reason why they "selected" it).

Although I just checked the 2023 Camaro Brochure and looks like I was wrong - the tire swap for weight increase is essentially a tie!

Quarter mile time is 12.5 for both although the LT1 has 1 mph higher trap speed.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BatMobileLT1

I agree if was optioned w/similar summer tires that LT1 would win on weight as noted but as I posted earlier - I see no signs that they swapped out the 245 all-season run-flats.

I wouldn't think LT1's weight advantage would be enough to compensate for its 245 all season-run flat rear tire vs SS 1LE w/305 width Goodyear Eagle F1 SC3's?

(although its also clear from the updated info from TH that they went with LT1 as only Camaro w/manual they could get, and then used its lower weight as a reason why they "selected" it).

If you freeze the video at around 1:05 you can see that the front tires are Eagle F1. So I just assume(?) that the rears are at least the equivalent.