[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Gen6cyl

They will sell out their country to line their pockets.Are you as well off as you were 3 years ago? I know the world is not.Their green BS has been a disaster.

Inflation is a real doozy and most likely one way or another tied to the global pandemic which led to supplying its chain issues etc. The invasion of Ukraine did not help. If there is a silver lining in all of this is that employees have quite a bit of leverage right now and can more readily switch jobs than at any time in recent history. Fuel prices are slowly trickling back down also.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Inflation is a real doozy and most likely one way or another tied to the global pandemic which led to supplying its chain issues etc. The invasion of Ukraine did not help. If there is a silver lining in all of this is that employees have quite a bit of leverage right now and can more readily switch jobs than at any time in recent history. Fuel prices are slowly trickling back down also.

Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.... Milton Friedman.

You can't pump trillions of dollars into the economy and not get inflation. Inflation was on the way up long before the Ukraine. The 'stimulus' made it worse and now the laughably named 'Inflation Reduction Act' will do the exact opposite of what its name suggests. It will pour more fuel on the inflationary fire AND raise your taxes.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.... Milton Friedman.

You can't pump trillions of dollars into the economy and not get inflation. Inflation was on the way up long before the Ukraine. The 'stimulus' made it worse and now the laughably named 'Inflation Reduction Act' will do the exact opposite of what its name suggests. It will pour more fuel on the inflationary fire AND raise your taxes.

yep, been going up for a while, but accelerated with the pandemic. that's not a coincidence.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Only if you politicize the technology discussion. But hey it’s the internet and everything is now political.

Because motortrend “discovered” what everyone already knew doesn’t condemn EVs. In fact I’m sure there are a lot of business owners that would be quite happy to haul their work tools and trailers around and get that range.

Of course the gasoline truck range also tanked in similar tests. And this was at highway speeds where aero is 50% of FE and range.

Simply go look at the articles for class 8 trucks going electric. Yes the same ones that tow 10s of thousands of pounds.

So for me it’s not clea4 what you give mother trend credit other than writ8n* an article that was known.

Most pickups towing that weight are getting between 5 and 9 MPG, but hold in the ball park of 50 Gallons of fuel.. ..because of that, they are still getting between 300 - 400 miles to a tank.. ..expensive to refuel, but also instant where as an EV towing the same capacity for only 100 miles is going to experience ALOT more down time towing long distances.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Most pickups towing that weight are getting between 5 and 9 MPG, but hold in the ball park of 50 Gallons of fuel.. ..because of that, they are still getting between 300 - 400 miles to a tank.. ..expensive to refuel, but also instant where as an EV towing the same capacity for only 100 miles is going to experience ALOT more down time towing long distances.

I agree with this but it's not just weight that is a factor its what the weight is you are towing as well. In my experience towing a couple vehicles on a gooseneck in a 2500 depending on the vehicles weighed 10-12ish thousand in weight. That Gas 2500 got 10 average. The one time I had to tow an 8000 pound double axle Camper the same truck got 6-7 mpg. I used to do extra work for the dealership I fixed cars at several years ago and that is what I chose to do for them as side work. That one manager wanted an RV from the Auction though lol. That truck had a 36 gallon tank and was dealer owned.

[GroundhogSS]

Here's a good review of the CO2 footprint of ICE, Hybrid and EV vehicles:





And here's where we should be putting the money for clean energy:

[Dathomas94]

Electric ? I won’t even drive an automatic tranny!

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Dathomas94

Electric ? I won’t even drive an automatic tranny!

lets keep it clean....

[Gen6cyl]

I believe in further development of the ic engine.Toyota has a 1.6 liter 3 cyl turbo making 300 HP. I can imagine 1 liter 3 cyl spinning 13k rpm with a battery for torque and accessories.Toyota,Mazda and Ford could do this. Let gm build freaky looking electric Cadillacs for the elites.

[raptor5244]

[QUOTE=GroundhogSS;11209268]Here's a good review of the CO2 footprint of ICE, Hybrid and EV vehicles:





This is why I scratch my head when GM says they are all in on EV so soon. It seems like they are more interested in raising the stock price than saving the planet. All you hear them say is 0 tailpipe emissions by 2030.

Toyota has been late to the game on BEV and continues to push Hybrids, which make much more sense short term. RAV4, Camry, Corolla, Sequoia, Highlander, Prius, Sienna and even the the new Tundra have a hybrid option.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/b...-vehicles.html

[digitalfutur]

Easy to see why there's such a huge demand for electric pickups: 75% of owners never use theirs for towing.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/...cowboy-costume

Anybody who's buying a new pickup (because they need one, not because it's an EV), is forking out $5k+ a year just for gas by getting the 15 mpg V8 ICE version instead of the EV version. The economics are a no-brainer for the big majority of the 75% prospective buyers who don't tow.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by digitalfutur

EVs are the future. It won't happen overnight, but with increasing speed over the next 20-30 years.

The charge times, infrastructure and system load will get figured out. The engine "noise" will get figured out. EV taxation will get figured out? Why? Because it all got figured out with previous new technologies. Necessity (and profits) are the mothers of invention, starting with the elimination over time of the horse-drawn buggy. Just because you don't agree with politically or otherwise with the eventual demise of ICE does not mean that humans have suddenly returned to pre-industrial thinking, and current issues with EVs re unworkable and unsolvable. That's not the history of human innovation.

The market will determine when (not if) EVs displace ICE vehicles. Oh and BTW, we, as enthusiasts who post here, are not representative of the general vehicle-buying population, and so don't influence corporate decisions. The market does, with some push from government to level the playing field.

Don't like government transportation regulations? Think again, because they were the catalyst, along with computerization, for carmakers to develop the vehicles we enjoy today: Better crash survivability, handling, braking, specific power output, far better acceleration, and far lower emissions than even 30 years ago.

Are EVs an "appliance"? Pull the ECU/M out of your ICE car and see how well it runs. It's a difference of degree, not kind.

If the market had anything to do with the rate of increase in sales of EV's then my tax dollars wouldn't be required to subsidize their purchase.

If the market really wanted EV's, then the government wouldn't be terrified of taxing thém to support road maintenance as ICE vehicles are.

The government isn't leveling the playing field "a little". They are dropping an anvil on the scale.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by digitalfutur

Easy to see why there's such a huge demand for electric pickups: 75% of owners never use theirs for towing.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/...cowboy-costume

Anybody who's buying a new pickup (because they need one, not because it's an EV), is forking out $5k+ a year just for gas by getting the 15 mpg V8 ICE version instead of the EV version. The economics are a no-brainer for the big majority of the 75% prospective buyers who don't tow.

True, but the Ford 150 Lightning standard battery is 98kWh for 230 miles of range and the extended battery is around 130kWh good for about 300 miles of range, without a load or towing.

Assuming you will always be able to charge at home at the average .15 per kW, that F150 costs about $15-$20 for 230-300 miles of range (full charge). If you have to charge on the road at public charging stations which average .30-.60 per kWh it would cost ~$40-$75 for a full charge. Then you have to factor in the increased upfront cost of the F150 EV, associated electrical costs to be able to charge at home and being able to park it close enough to the garage to get power. Then add in the inconvenience/range anxiety and potential for larger than normal depreciation since EVs are early in their innovation cycle. More competition and increased battery supply should drive prices down over time.

I see these trucks being popular because they are new, pretty quick low NVH and have cooler tech in them but I am am not sure they will actually save a ton of money and based on the research they are not greener to manufacturer. The greener truck right now is actually a Tundra Hybrid and it does away with a lot of the negatives associated with an BEV truck. The Tundra Hybrid will get 20 city/24 highway and holds 32 gallons of fuel if you want. That is like 644 to 772 miles of range per tank.

[Slippy]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

If the market had anything to do with the rate of increase in sales of EV's then my tax dollars wouldn't be required to subsidize their purchase.

If the market really wanted EV's, then the government wouldn't be terrified of taxing thém to support road maintenance as ICE vehicles are.

The government isn't leveling the playing field "a little". They are dropping an anvil on the scale.

Is the petroleum industry subsidized? I can't find a clear answer online, some sources say > $5T a year.